Links to Dr Hayley D Quinn Resources
Reclaim Your Time and Energy: 6 Key Boundaries for Women Business Owners
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Link to podcast mailing list: https://drhayleydquinn.com/podcast/
Group Coaching Waitlist: https://drhayleydquinn.myflodesk.com/timetothrivewaitlist
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Links to Carla Anderson’s Resources
https://carlaandersoncliniciantraining.com
www.linkedin.com/in/carla-anderson-psychologist
https://www.instagram.com/carlaandersoncliniciantraining/
https://www.facebook.com/carlaandersonpsychologist/
This transcript is computer generated and may contain errors and not be an exact representation of the audio
Hi this is Welcome to Self® and I’m your host, Dr Hayley D Quinn, the anti-burnout business coach. I’m a speaker, author, former clinical psychologist and a late identified auDHDer.
Welcome to Self ® is a podcast for business owners like you who want success but not at the cost of your well-being. This is about transforming self and transforming business. I’ll be here to remind you that you’re human first and as well as being a business owner, you have different roles in your life that need your attention and to manage those well, you need to take care of yourself in the best way possible.
Here you’ll learn about practices that’ll help you navigate not just your business but your non-work life as well and you’ll realise that you’re not alone in the ways you struggle. You’ll have your curiosity piqued on various topics as I chat with wonderful guests and bring you solo bite-sized episodes.
I’m here for service-based business owners and entrepreneurs like you, to help you increase your self-care and compassion, change your relationship with yourself and your business, and elevate your business to a new level so you can live the full and meaningful life you desire.
This is a place of nourishment, growth and helpful information. A place where you can learn ways to assist you and your business to thrive.
We’ll talk all things mindset, strategy and well-being and I’m so excited you’re here. If you haven’t already, go and hit subscribe so you don’t miss an episode.
So, let’s get started
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Hi, and welcome to another episode. Today, I will be speaking to my guest about career pivots, creativity, and how following your passions can lead to better wellbeing. Carla Anderson is a clinical psychologist with more than 25 years of experience supporting parents, infants, and the clinicians who care for them. Through her business, Carla Anderson Clinician Training, she offers two pathways of training that help clinicians tend with confidence and bloom with purpose: one focused on skills in perinatal healthcare, and another focused on clinician self-care and nurturing with flowers. And you all know I am all about self-care for clinicians. This is a really, really important area, so if you are a clinician or health professional, I think you are going to get a lot out of this episode.
After years of carrying the emotional weight of her work and juggling the demands of running a business, Carla began studying floristry for her own self-care. She discovered how flowers, creativity, and mindful making could restore what empathy fatigue and burnout had worn down. This personal experience became the seed of the Clinician in Bloom, a space where clinicians slow down, reconnect, and replenish through floral practice, metaphor, and mindfulness. It is my pleasure to welcome Carla to the podcast, and I am sure you are going to love this episode. Carla, welcome so much. It is so lovely to have you here.
Carla Anderson: Oh, thank you so much, Hayley. I am so excited to be here to share things with your listeners.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: So, can you tell me, when was that moment when you knew you had to make different choices?
Carla Anderson: I think it was a few years ago, not long after COVID. With all the pivots and things that we had to do as business owners… not that we were too badly affected here in Queensland by lockdowns, but with changes in rules and things like that. As psychologists, I found that our industry was really changing as well, in terms of the workforce and different legislation, so there was a lot of pivoting and a lot of working way too many hours. I just got to a point where I thought: “something has got to change here. I cannot keep pushing at this level”.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: It was a really tough time. I remember talking to a lot of people at the time, supervisees and other colleagues, when I was myself a psychologist, around that being a time when we were experiencing the same thing as our clients in terms of the COVID pandemic, but there was not really a lot of space for us to acknowledge our humanness. So I think it was a really tricky time, and like you say, there were lots of legislative changes, lots of changes with Medicare and things like that. But also, generally, for business owners that were not psychologists, this was a really, really pivotal time in the world, right? And, like you say, here in Queensland, we were really fortunate that we were not impacted, but so many people who will be listening were perhaps in places like Melbourne or other places in the world where this was really, really significant as well.
So you just knew then: “I cannot keep doing this, this is really impacting me too much, I am going to do something different”. And you went on to study floristry, which makes me giggle, because I have had so many conversations over the years when I was working with other psychologists and supervising, where they would say: “this work feels too heavy, I want to throw it all in and become a florist”. And then I met you, and you had done that, and I was like, that is fantastic. So many people say it, but Carla actually went ahead and did it. That is so brilliant, I love that.
Carla Anderson: There has always been that thing that I have always said (you know, like my second career choice would be being a florist) and I have always just been known as the flower lady. It has just been this real… like, it is just so beautiful.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: So what is it about floristry for you personally, and why do you think creativity, whether it is in floristry or in any kind of domain, why do you think creativity is so helpful in terms of our wellbeing?
Carla Anderson: Oh, there are so many parts to that. Personally, I have always loved nature and the garden, and always been known as the plant lady or the flower lady. When I would give flowers to people, that was kind of my love language. I had never really thought about what it was about flowers that meant so much, but there was a Christmas workshop advertised and I thought: “I am just going to go along to that, that sounds really fun”. It was making some different Christmas arrangements and from there, I realised that when I was in that room being guided by the teacher, I was not thinking about anything else. Everything else was blocked out. My hubby would always say to me out in the garden: “when I look at you out in the garden, you are just out in the zone,” and it was just like this light bulb, where I realised that this really was my mindfulness, that this was that place where I did stop.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, so this is your opportunity where you can get into flow, you can be really mindful. And what did you notice in terms of, like, physically? Did you notice a difference with how your nervous system was reacting?
Carla Anderson: Yeah, just that real slowing down. I have always been one of those people that struggles with traditional mindfulness and meditation and things like that. I am such a doer, and I am always on the go, and so this kind of combined that for me. I am still doing, and I was still creating, but I was still very mindful and in the zone. I did not really have all that noise going on about whether it was running the business or other things that were happening. It is just so beautiful and sensory. When you think about flowers, they are just so beautiful to look at, and to touch, and to smell… all of the senses are engaged when you work with flowers. It was something that I always knew, but it just was this real light bulb momentum where I went: “you know what, this is my thing, and I am going to stop trying to fit into the mould of what I think I should be doing, and go really focus on this as my own mindfulness”.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I love that, and I think you make a really important point, particularly for a lot of neurodivergent people, particularly ADHD, that traditional mindfulness meditation can feel like a real barrier. I am not going to be able to sit and do that. And I think we need to acknowledge there are lots of ways that we can be in a mindful moment, or we can be meditating, and that can be out walking on the beach, it can be creating with flowers, it can be drawing, it can be doing all sorts of stuff. So I love that you talked about that, and people listening, really try to think about: “what are the ways that I can connect with the present moment?”. It does not have to be sat down, eyes closed, legs crossed kind of stuff. I cannot do that. That is very rare that I will do that.
I love that you mentioned that, and also that piece around letting go of “this is how I should be”. This is particular for someone who works as a psychologist or health professional, because there are these rigid rules around that, are there not? So, what was the biggest challenge you had in terms of mindset when making the change?
Carla Anderson: For me, it had to be something that was going to be locked in. From those Christmas workshops, I actually then enrolled in the full certificate to become a florist. People who know me are like: “of course you did, that is what you do”. But I think for me (and again, similar to the mindfulness of what works for me) I had always been really critical of myself, to go: “well, why should I need to lock something in to actually do it?”. But it was the real mindset shift of accepting that I know this about myself, and I know if I have not got a class locked in, I am not going to do it. Other things are going to get in the way. And so it meant that for 18 months, every Monday, I had to do a massive reshuffle of my clinical work and my business responsibilities. Every Monday, I went to class from 9 until 3 and studied floristry, and that really, really worked for me.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I love that, going back to being a student with that beginner’s mind. But also that piece around knowing yourself. The premise of my book, From Self-Neglect to Self-Compassion, really is about getting to know ourselves. Getting to know yourself, really understanding who you are and what works for you is so important, is it not? We cannot just look at what other people are doing and think that is going to work for us. So I love that you knew: “if I do not lock this in, I am not going to do it”.
I have booked for myself a pottery class. I have done hand crafting pottery before, but I have booked in to do wheel pottery, and part of me is just like: “what are you doing, Hayley?”. There is some anxiety around that, but I am also booked in, it is a four-week course, I have got to turn up, and I am going with a friend. So I have made sure I have put things in place that are going to allow me to do that as well. I do not think I am going to make a business of it or anything, just go and have a bit of fun.
Carla Anderson: Actually, I had decided: “I want to do this and just go and do it for fun,” so I think it was another mindset shift for me as well. It has obviously then become part of my business, but that was never my intention at the beginning, so that was another really important mindset part for me: I am doing this just for me, and what comes of it comes of it.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I love that. I work with a lot of very high-achieving women, and myself through my life, we can get caught in that trap, can we not? That what I am doing has to be for purpose, it has to be productive, it has to be for me to sell it, or for me to pass it on to somebody else, or it cannot just be for the sheer joy and pleasure and being with myself in this moment. And we absolutely can do that, and things like that are so important to our wellbeing, are they not?
Carla Anderson: Yeah, and it was really important to me. That took a lot to go: “this is a big commitment,” this was an 18-month course, and the costs involved in it as well. I think that was that real shift where it was like: “no, I have to make some big changes here, because I cannot continue working the way that I was working”.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: So it sounds like those changes were not just about your professional life in terms of “I need to find something else to do” (and for you, you have chosen to keep both pathways), but also in your personal life of: “actually, it is okay for me to just give to myself. It is okay for me to just take time for me”. And again, I think, particularly as women, we can really struggle with that.
Carla Anderson: Yeah, again, it needs to be a reason. Even as psychologists, or any professional I think, any kind of training that we do, it has to be because it is our professional development or it is informing us in some way with our work. Whereas this was so outside of the box of what I would normally do training-wise, and it was a lot of relearning, too, because there is a very different learning style as well, to what we are used to with psychology and uni, and so that was a big shift, too.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. And then you have brought together the Clinicians in Bloom, you have kind of pulled these threads of: “this is the psychology, and the mindfulness, and the nervous system regulation, and here is the floristry,” and you have created this programme. What sort of made you do that? What inspired you to do that?
Carla Anderson: Oh, it is a fascinating story. The owner of the floristry school I had actually been connected with, I think it must have been 20 years earlier when I was working in domestic violence, and we were doing workplace training and assessment certificates together. I was coming from the angle of domestic violence, and she was coming from the angle of floristry, and I just remember she was so able to talk about all of that lost craft, that real historical floristry part, and talk about meanings and not just the: “this is how you put together a bouquet”. So then we fast-forward 20 years. I had no idea that the school that I enrolled in was her school, and that was just this massive circle moment for me that kind of cemented: “you know what, I am in the right place right now”. But also just learning what she would share about the history of flowers, and the meanings of flowers, and the language of flowers, and things like that. My mind just started to go down that rabbit hole of: “this is so relevant to the work that we do,” and I just started to think how useful that would be for clients, but then starting to think more so about for healthcare professionals as well.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, absolutely. It is heavy work that you do, and I used to do, and I think it is so lovely. I started doing self-care for therapist work probably about 5 or 6 years ago, and it has been so lovely to watch more and more people kind of move into that space and provide services and spaces where health professionals can go and take care of themselves. So, for you, the work you do is just with health professionals, or do you extend this work to anybody and everybody that wants to come and use flowers as a way of being with themselves and being creative?
Carla Anderson: At the moment, I am focusing on my Clinician in Bloom, which is for any healthcare professional, and it is an online programme. However, what I also do run, not as regularly but depending on demand and things like that, is I was running my Floralful group (flowers and mindfulness) and that was for women. That was for women at any stage of life, because I have worked in the perinatal space for nearly my whole career, and found that there are these big gaps for women with maybe primary school-aged children, or high school age, or leaving home, so that is the other part that I do in-person workshops for women who are just wanting to come and do something for them.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, fantastic, because we are so good at kind of taking care of others’ needs, are we not? I will talk again about this in the book. We are so socialised from such a young age to think of others first and take care of the needs of everybody else, and that can lead to self-neglect, and we have increased rates of burnout, particularly among women, as we know. So I love that there are more and more people that are kind of offering spaces for this sort of stuff to happen. What advice would you give to other people who are perhaps thinking of changing careers, whether that is a complete change (leaving behind what they were doing and moving into something completely new) or adding a stream to their business or their work?
Carla Anderson: I think for me, because I really love my clinical work that I do, I just was feeling really burnt out by the business, but also that empathy fatigue as well, with the heaviness of the work that I do clinically. And I think you can get to this point where it feels like (and I get to this point very often) where it is like: “I cannot do this anymore, I need to go and do something different,” and I guess I am just slowly, slowly learning that maybe I just need to try (and it is a lot easier said than done) to make some space for something that does feel completely different, so that it does not feel like for 25 years this has been my whole identity. That, and being a mum, has been my whole identity with not often a lot of other things for me, and so I found that really useful, to just really try to make some space, even if it is really small, that I am doing something that is quite different to what I do in my everyday.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. Do you have any concerns that you will kind of start this floristry stream of the business, and then that will become about other people, rather than about you and your engagement, and your connection to self along the way?
Carla Anderson: Yes, and that was one of my big things when I started studying floristry, where I was like: “no, I do not want to touch this to work,” because I know (again, knowing myself) I know that I will create this beautiful thing, and then probably will not enjoy it for myself anymore. Whereas I have probably been thinking about it a little bit different. I just have not put much pressure on it. I am just really trying to focus on going slowly with it, seeing what comes of it. But also, since stopping studying the certificate, those Mondays have gone out the window for me again. So, I do not do my floristry on Mondays anymore. And so, on the other hand, it kind of does mean that I am engaging back with my flowers on a regular basis, so I do think that that will be helpful for me at the same time.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, so you keep that Monday now for you to engage in a joyful way, just for you and your flowers.
Carla Anderson: That is right, that is right.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Okay. So I think that really speaks to being intentional, does it not? Because we can go back to habits. And I have worked with people who work, say, in a corporate environment and they are employed. They are like: “I do not want to be employed, I want to work for myself, I want to have some more autonomy, I want to have a bit more freedom”. And ultimately, they find themselves, years down the track, doing exactly what they were doing for somebody else, without the benefits of sick pay, holiday pay, and all that sort of stuff. So I think creating our businesses and our lives in a really intentional way is so important. So I love that you have protected that Monday space. It has not got clients creeping back in there, or whatever else other people are needing from you. I think that that intentionality is really an important piece, so thanks for mentioning that as well.
Carla Anderson: And it is really hard. There are days where, maybe it is not as protected as I would like it to be, and I know that it is not a possibility for everybody to do that, but even if I am doing some admin work and things like that, I really try to focus on the day being a slow day, and not an overbooked day, and spending time out in the garden with the flowers, even if I am not getting to do any arranging and things like that, is really important.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, fantastic. And of course, we are not aiming for perfection, we are not aiming for every day to be exactly as we set it up to be. We have to acknowledge we are human first, and we do have other things, and not everybody has, like you say, the privilege of the autonomy and freedom that perhaps you and I have. But even if you do not have that autonomy and freedom, it is like: “look for the little spots of where you could be making some choices for yourself”. And I always come back to, even if it is just taking 10 breaths and tuning in to yourself and what you need, and maybe that is a glass of water, or a cup of tea, or maybe you need to go move your body a little bit. And if you do have more space for it, really thinking: “what do I want these particular days to look like? How do I want to kind of curate my life in a way that is going to be really meaningful and intentional so I can thrive?”. Because at the end of the day, that is what we want, is it not? We want to be thriving today, and for our future selves as well. This season is all about focusing on future self and when you were thinking about this, how much did you kind of fast-forward for yourself to consider your future self in these decisions?
Carla Anderson: I think that was, again, because it was that real “something had to change” moment. It really was thinking about my future self, and thinking about: “do I continue doing what I am doing in my work, or how do I make that more sustainable?”. And so, so many of the decisions that I made were thinking about that. It is tricky, because it is a lot of gear shifts often, but I just keep coming back to that: “why am I doing this? What is my why?”.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. So, reconnecting with your values on a regular basis, thinking about future self. Because I think we can get caught up (and I certainly did this before I ended up in a really significant burnout) is thinking about present me: “well, I will just get through, I have just got to get to the end of the day, I will be okay if I can just get through to the end of the day,” and then day upon day upon day, week upon week, month upon month. If you keep doing that, ultimately you end up in a future space where it is like: “actually, I am completely depleted, I am burnt out”. I had to walk away from the place where I was… I had a room set up, I had beautiful colleagues, it became a really distressing time of my life, which is why I am so passionate about helping people think about future self now, so that you can set things up. So I love that you held “future Carla” in mind (you know, what is life going to look like for future Carla?) and then created that space for that as well. And, are you just loving it?
Carla Anderson: Yes, and I too made some pretty significant changes. I had a big group practice and shut it down last year, and that was not necessarily an intentional decision at that time, but it actually was the best decision that I made. So it is that duality of it being a significant change and a lot to carry, but at the same time, it just keeps reminding me of coming back to my why again. Now I get to work from home, and I can just walk out into my flower garden and take that (even if it is just 5 minutes) and I have just got that constant reminder. I look out my window, and it is: “you know what, you need a break. You need to go out and walk out,” whereas I never used to do that. I think that sometimes when big things happen, it can be quite distressing and devastating at the time, but it can also be really beautiful, too.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. So, what has been the most pleasant surprise for you in this transition?
Carla Anderson: I think I have just really, really loved learning about flowers and learning about the history of flowers and their meanings. I have always known that I have loved them, but never really thought much more about it, so it is being able to really dive into that space to learn about all those things. I just think it is really, really beautiful, and learning how to grow them, because I grow a lot of my own flowers as well. So it has been this really lovely time, because you can then see… you get to… in our work, we do not often get a lot of feedback about our work, whereas when it comes to nature and flowers, you get that feedback every time you are looking: you know that there is a new bloom, or there is a new seed sprouting, and I just absolutely love that. That has been the really beautiful part.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Oh, that is fantastic. I am not the best with plants and keeping them alive, although I have done pretty well since moving to the coast the last couple of years. But I love Peace Lilies, because they talk to you, right? They wilt and say: “I need some water”. And then you give them water, and they sparkle up, and it is fantastic. So they are my favourite, but that is more about how I need them to tell me how to look after them, because I am not great. Again, ADHD, I will completely forget that I have got plants that need watering. Do you have a favourite?
Carla Anderson: Oh, I was just going to say, that is that beautiful part about flowers. Even when you are given flowers, you know, they need their water changed, and they need their stems cut, it is this visual reminder, like the Peace Lily, where it is like: “oh, I need to look after that Peace Lily right now,” and connecting that back in with: “what am I doing to look after myself?”
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. It is just reminding me, because I have always struggled to hydrate enough. I have actually been working with a naturopath lately, and I am on instruction to drink lots of water, and I am thrilled with myself, because I am getting through at least 2 litres of water a day, which I am blowing my own mind, to be honest. I do not quite know how I am managing it, but I am, which is fantastic. But one of the things I used to do when I was in a relationship with my Peace Lily… I had quite a few of them around the house, so I would kind of chat to them, and they would tell me they needed water by wilting, and I would then give them the water, but I would also check in with myself: “okay, Peace Lily needs water, do I need water as well?”. So it was this really beautiful kind of symbiotic relationship between me and my Peace Lilies, which might sound a little weird, but here we are.
Carla Anderson: That does not sound weird at all, because that is exactly the same thing about when you have a bunch of flowers, and just really looking at: “what do those flowers need today, and what is that telling me that I might need?”
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, I love that. That is so fantastic. So, I had another question in my mind, and it’s come back. Do you have a favourite flower or plant yourself? And why is it?
Carla Anderson: Well, it is the flannel flower. It is an Australian native, and it looks like a little, beautiful, dainty flower, and they have got this really velvety texture. But what I actually really love about it is a lot of the meaning behind it as well: that, for a lot of the natives, it is about being able to thrive in harsh conditions. And it is a notoriously difficult flower to grow, and I tried every single way possible. It needs smoke and flame and things like that, so I would be out in the backyard with my terracotta pot, trying to burn these little seeds to get them going. Nothing would work. And it had gotten to a point where I was like: “cannot grow this flannel flower”. You could not often find it in a plant, and I actually found someone that was selling the plants, and that is from my garden. They are just blooming beautifully, and that is a really long way of saying what is my favourite flower, but I think it is so much to do with the meaning about it. I could have just given up and went: “I cannot get these to germinate,” but instead I thought: “I just need to tackle this differently, I need to adapt,” and I found somebody who sold the plant, rather than trying to germinate it from seed. Even that in itself has so much meaning in it: that sometimes we might not be able to germinate or start what it is we want, but we might just need to adapt the things that we are doing. And so every time I look at them, it just brings joy, but also is that reminder of where I have adapted.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I love that: being willing to be with the discomfort of not being able to do something, thinking about how you can do it differently. I mean, this is life, right? Thinking about how you can do it differently, recognising when you actually perhaps need help from somebody else, and being willing to reach out and ask for that help, or even have conversations with people around: “I do not actually know what help I need, but can you help me figure out what help I need?”. So, I think this just fits so beautifully. I mean, it really is… this floristry really is a beautiful metaphor for life, is it not?
Carla Anderson: Oh, it so is, and there are so many metaphors when you think about floristry and flowers and nature. It can be really, really powerful in terms of reinforcing that self-care and thinking about what it is that we need.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Oh, lovely. I am so excited. I am all about supporting women in business. I am joining your Clinician in Bloom, even though I am not technically a clinician anymore, but always at heart. And I am really excited to learn more from you, and I think at the time of recording, you do have perhaps a couple of spots left for that, so we will put a link in the show notes, and if you do, you do, and if not, perhaps people can go on a waitlist or contact you for next time you go and run the programme. Yeah, fantastic. So, I ask this question to everybody that comes on the podcast, it is one of my favourites, and it is also a question that I ask myself on a regular basis: if you could meet your 80-year-old self today, what do you think she would say to you?
Carla Anderson: Trust your instincts. I think that that is probably one of my biggest kind of guiding principles that I go by is trust your instincts, and go with what feels right.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Fantastic. I love it. And I am sure your 80-year-old self, if we are all fortunate enough to reach 80, I can imagine her pottering in the garden, growing various plants and flowers, and perhaps having some frustrations about the ones that were not quite doing as they were told. That is right. That is fantastic. Where is the best place people can connect to you?
Carla Anderson: Probably by email or checking out my website. Otherwise, on Instagram and Facebook as well, you can follow along at Carla Anderson Clinician Training. I post lots of different things about flowers and other things on there as well, but whatever is easiest for listeners to reach out, I am always happy to connect. I love connecting with people who share the same passion, so that would be more than welcome.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on, Carla. I am sure people are going to get a lot from this episode. There has been some beautiful wisdom throughout. I really appreciate you joining me. And thank you for tuning in again, I hope you have enjoyed the episode, and we will be back again next week. So, in the meantime, take care, go well, and go gently with yourselves. Bye!
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