This transcript is computer generated and may contain errors and not be an exact representation of the audio
Hi this is Welcome to Self® and I’m your host, Dr Hayley D Quinn, the anti-burnout business coach. I’m a speaker, author, former clinical psychologist and a late identified auDHDer.
Welcome to Self ® is a podcast for business owners like you who want success but not at the cost of your well-being. This is about transforming self and transforming business. I’ll be here to remind you that you’re human first and as well as being a business owner, you have different roles in your life that need your attention and to manage those well, you need to take care of yourself in the best way possible.
Here you’ll learn about practices that’ll help you navigate not just your business but your non-work life as well and you’ll realise that you’re not alone in the ways you struggle. You’ll have your curiosity piqued on various topics as I chat with wonderful guests and bring you solo bite-sized episodes.
I’m here for service-based business owners and entrepreneurs like you, to help you increase your self-care and compassion, change your relationship with yourself and your business, and elevate your business to a new level so you can live the full and meaningful life you desire.
This is a place of nourishment, growth and helpful information. A place where you can learn ways to assist you and your business to thrive.
We’ll talk all things mindset, strategy and well-being and I’m so excited you’re here. If you haven’t already, go and hit subscribe so you don’t miss an episode.
So, let’s get started
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Hi, and welcome to another episode. Lovely to have you back or welcome. If this is your 1st time here today, I’m going to be chatting to another great guest. So let me go ahead and introduce her. Denise Duffield. Thomas is the money mentor for the new wave of online entrepreneurs who want to make money and change the world.
Denise helps entrepreneurs, release the fear of money, charge premium prices, and create 1st class lives. Denise creates safe places for people to talk about money, cash and abundance, and has helped over 8.5,000 students worldwide through her money boot camp. Her books get rich, lucky bitch, and chill and prosper, give a fresh and funny roadmap to living a life of abundance without burnout. And you know that I’m all about that.
Denise owns a rose farm, although I believe it’s on the market
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Love to talk about that. Yeah.
So if a rose farm is on your bucket list, it’s absolutely stunning. Denise lives by the beach in sunny Australia, and describes herself as a lazy introvert and an unbusy mother of 3. It’s my absolute pleasure to introduce, Denise to the podcast thank you so much. Denise for coming on and chatting with me.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Thank you so much for having me. It’s an absolute pleasure. And it’s funny. I was listening. I was like, Oh, I need to update my bio. So we’ve had close to 10,000 people. Go through my program now, and you’re right. We are selling our farm, and even though I still live on the east coast of Australia. We sold our beach house a little while ago, too, all in service of creating a more chilled life.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I live at the beach. I can’t imagine a more chilled life being away from the beach, but you do. You
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, it’s so funny. Well, what I realized I was like, Wow, you have to get your windows washed every week when you live by the beach, I was like. Oh, that’s in the too hard basket for me. All of our house was getting all degraded from the soul air. But it was a really a really great lesson, though in, you know, we worked for years to build this house by the beach, and it was beautiful, and we ended up. The whole project was like a 7 year project, which is always. All of my projects seem to be those 7 year cycles, and realizing going. This isn’t for me. It’s actually not what I that’s not the dream anymore, and giving yourself permission to change dreams is really powerful.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, absolutely. Because that’s the thing, isn’t it? I have a favorite saying that the best thing about choice is, you can always make another choice, and that when we make a choice it’s not permanent, is it? It doesn’t have to be permanent. you know. We can do these things. But before we just get chit chatting, because I know we could kind of just get into that. Do you want to start by letting people know? How did you become a money mentor like what led you to what you’re doing
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Well, honestly, it really does come down to how I grew up. So I was raised by a very young single mom. She was 17 when she had me. And so we grew up in a very volatile, financially, emotionally, everything volatile. And so I really felt like at a young age. I really knew that I wanted to earn my own money. So that’s that’s my personal desire of why I wanted to become an entrepreneur. Why, I wanted to make a lot of money is to have that freedom.
The other part of my personality, though that is very strong, is that I grew up watching Oprah every day after school. And so I had this real her personality trait of wanting to share everything that I’d learned from from Oprah, and I’m still that person. Now, if I read a book, I want you to know about it. If I learn something I want to share it. And so, if I was born, you know, 20 years earlier than what I was. I probably would have been a teacher
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Instead, I had this real desire to make my own money and a real desire to share information with people. And so I think I just came of age at a time when like the Internet sort of came, and I could share my solutions with more people. But I didn’t know what that was going to be. So my 1st kind of ever business was an ebook called Internet Dating Tips for men, because I was a young woman in living in London, doing Internet dating and going. Everyone sucks at this.
How can I help them? And it’s probably my Virgo nature, too, of going. You’re all doing this wrong.
let me help you. And so that was one of my 1st kind of online businesses. And similarly, my next couple were about. I’ve learned this thing.
You know. How can I? How can we do this together? Not even from a place of I know all the stuff. And so I became a life coach, because, I thought, Can I just get over my ego about being a life coach and thinking it’s not a real job and just do it
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And very quickly I realized that clients were coming to me with all sorts of problems and issues. But I really loved working with the entrepreneurs most of all, and then out of the entrepreneurs. I was like, I really love talking to people about money, and I had my own blocks around it because I thought, I’m not allowed to talk about money unless I’m an accountant unless I’m a financial advisor. But the work that I was starting to do with people was that curiosity work of like, let’s dive into some of your experiences around money, and why you might be making those decisions today, based on those experiences. And so even now, 13 years later, of running my money boot camp, I still feel like I’m not a guru. I don’t have all of the answers. I create a space where we can be really curious about where some of our sabotaging money behaviors can come from.
And it really was that kind of natural progression of just being, that person who just loves to sort things out and loves to solve problems with people. And it just naturally kind of led into money
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, I love that because it’s that sort of you being curious and paying attention and listening, isn’t it? And then evolving yourself and your business to what the people in your orbit are actually needing. I was having a conversation with my husband about this. I come from a psychology background and had moved into supervision. But then, had people wanting to talk to me about how I’d set up my business, and how I take care of myself in my business. So I evolved that into my business coaching. And it really isn’t it, seeing what’s in front of you, and what people are asking of you and for you.
It’s kind of that non-traditional money path, isn’t it? And I get what you’re saying in terms of that fear of well, I’m not an accountant or financial advisor. So there are restrictions about what you can and can’t talk about. But you’re not coming from that perspective. You’re really helping people understand, and I love that a lot of premise of my work is helping people understand who they are, so they can make the decisions they need to do. And that sounds like, that’s what you’re doing with people you work with around money as well.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Truly, yeah, yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: No, you go!
Denise Duffield-Thomas: I was. Gonna say I, I find that a lot of accountants, bookkeepers, financial advisors, if they are working with women. Oftentimes they recommend my book, because they know that their clients will sabotage themselves, or that they’re really scared to even talk about money or think about money. And so they know that sometimes they need to do that foundational work. But also I think that as we go in our money journeys we will hit new and old money stories as we go along. And so its ,we haven’t had a lot of safe spaces, I think, to talk about money openly, and that’s that’s what I provide is just to make it. It’s not taboo, it’s not scary. We’re allowed to talk about it, and that sometimes is the conditioning for people is that it’s impolite to talk about money. It’s you know, we’re not allowed to unless we’re someone. And I just want to make it really normal and normalized that you know, I have made a ton of money, and I’m just a normal person.
and we sometimes feel like we have to be really perfect before we’re allowed to do anything related to money
Dr Hayley D Quinn: And I love that. You’re shifting this narrative because and I think particularly for people who identify as women, we have not been socialized to think it’s okay to have money unless it’s like the housekeeping money to make lots of money. In fact, I think there’s been messaging for many people. Look. I’m in my fifties so certainly women my age, that you know, don’t earn more money than men.
You know, don’t strive to earn a lot of money and the sort of things that we should be spending. We’re not really encouraged to invest our money, but to spend our money on the things that you know, typically quote, women should be spending their money on, like, you know, makeup and clothes and all those things that are seen as acceptable.
Hopefully, that’s shifting. But I think it sits within a lot of people, and I love that. You’re kind of disrupting that and giving people these spaces where they can talk about that. I’m curious to ask, what do you think are like the most common blocks that you see for people
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yeah. So I talk about 3 that I feel like a very universal, but they show up in slightly different ways. So I think that’s really fascinating. So the 1st one is you have to work hard to make money
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Now, this is very personal to everyone, because working hard can mean different things. So in some families, it’s like we are accountants. We do sensible things, you know we that’s what we do. And so then, if you’re born into that family, you want to be an artist, you think I can’t do it. I have to work hard to make money in my family. My mom always had like quite menial jobs, and she had to have a lot of them. So for me, it was like, Okay, well, I have to just work every hour, because I’m never going to be. I’ll never get ahead unless I do that. And so for me, I feel really guilty when I’m not working, because I think I could be earning another hourly.
You know, wage this shows up, I think, in most cultures, but I think it’s really fascinating to see where the nuances are around this. So like in America, for example, there is a very work, hard hustle, kind of culture, where you’re allowed to show effort. And you’re also allowed to be happy with the results. Yeah.
Now in Australia, you can see you’re you’re not allowed to really show the effort as much. You can’t show that you really care too much. And also you have to be quite like a bit sarcastic about your results. A little bit right? You have to kind of be a bit like, Oh, yeah. I did that. But whatever it’s no big deal in England. I find this is really fascinating, too, is like, well, I have to take my turn. I have to, you know, be because English people love queuing.
It’s like I have to take my turn, and I have to, you know, follow the process, and that’s how I can do it. That’s how I can work hard. There’s not a sense of like, well, I’m allowed to leapfrog ahead, or I’m allowed to use cheat codes in any way whatever that might mean. So I feel like that’s such a fundamental one for every person to look at. What’s my relationship with work and money. Is it allowed to be easy or do I think it has to be this one to one relationship where I do something? And I earn money, and that’s where people can struggle with creating passive income sources.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: With raising their prices, with being like a premium service, or, you know, adding different things into their business, trying different business models, because no, I have to work hard to make money and even some people might struggle them with hiring. Yeah, you know, outsourcing, because no, I have
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Do it all myself. Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: I should. Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I’ve worked. Coming from a psychology background. I work a lot with people in the helping professions, and that raising prices has been so much of my work with people is getting them to a place where they feel not even more comfortable, because I believe we can still do things when we’re feeling uncomfortable. But you know, getting people to understand that it’s okay to raise prices
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Well, that’s actually the second most common block I see. It’s this, we take it down to distill it again into. I can help people or make money. And I see this so much in those health related mental health
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Any kind of physical kind of stuff, you know. So I remember someone saying, You know, I help people with pelvic prolapse, so I’m not allowed to. If I really cared about my patients, which I do, then I should undercharge right, and it’s that feeling of like you cannot do both, and if you try, then you only care about the money.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Hmm.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And you know this idea of being able to charge win-win pricing, and also have boundaries around stuff, too, because sometimes for some people it’s not even what they charge. It’s actually you. Let people be late, not show up, not charge up front, not
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: You know, stick to time. Let people contact you outside of of working hours working with people who emotionally drain you. So it’s not even the price. It’s all the things around it. Because, you know, yeah, so that’s
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Bring it. Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And then the 3rd block I see a lot is I call it more money, more problems. And it’s this fear that’s very personal to each of us that if I make more money something bad will happen. So for some people it’s a visibility fear they fear. You know I’ll be hounded, or harassed, or trolled, or hated in some way. For some people. It’s I will lose my values.For some people. It’s I will get into trouble, you know. I will screw up my taxes, I will, you know, make a mistake, and I’ll get into trouble. There’s just this vague fear that we have that then filters into our day where we think I want to be successful. But I’m terrified of what that would mean. If you ask someone on the surface they would go. No, no, of course I want the success, but it’s that. Still, that feeling inside of going it’s not safe for me to make more money
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. Do you know it’s interesting, isn’t it? Because everyone thinks you know the biggest fear is fear of failure. But I’ve had so many conversations with people where the fear is actually fear of success.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Absolutely. And what what is that going to mean for me? And, as I said, it’s really personal for everyone. Mine is always. People won’t like me, and the more that you can work on that and identify it. Sometimes we just need to park that for our brains and go. You know what I’ll worry about that when it happens, or stuff putting things into place. So for me, I was very worried about getting into trouble, and for me that has a very direct through line. I remember sitting with my mom in the Welfare Office, and they were questioning her, and there was a sense of. If she gets those questions wrong, we’re not going to be able to eat. And I felt it very clearly as a child. And so then, when I started my business. I remember it was you could go and meet someone at the ATO for free that the Government set up for new businesses, and you know, that’s a really nice thing. Right? I was sweating because I was thinking, I’m gonna say, the wrong thing. I’m gonna get
Dr Hayley D Quinn: To try
Denise Duffield-Thomas: I’m going to lose everything. And it was a very primal fear that I actually think has a much earlier kind of memory for so many of us of the tax man coming to your house, you know you remember those old movies with like the Sheriff of Nottingham or something, and it’s like, Oh, you don’t have your taxes fine! We’ll burn your house down. And or the grim reaper, you know this idea of the tax man being like the grim reaper I feel like was such a big thing. And also I live in Australia, where people were sent here stealing a loaf of bread.
Great. We’ll ship you off to Australia. So I feel like that for me was a big breakthrough to realize. Oh, my God, it’s okay. I’m not going to be sent to jail for meeting with this tax guy, but it was such an eye opener for me to to realize. Oh, my God! This fear of getting into trouble is stopping me in so many ways in my business.
And this is the thing. Isn’t it like if we don’t pay attention to some of that stuff, if you don’t kind of unearth some of the things that are going on. We just keep making decisions when we’re in our threat system and they don’t tend to be unless you’re trying to get out of a burning building like making decisions based on your threat system don’t tend to be the best long term decisions. So being aware and understanding whether it’s something from childhood, whether it’s something from a you know, more recent in your life. It’s really important, isn’t it, for people to really understand what their own personal narrative is, and what lessons they’ve learned along the way, what messages they’ve had from perhaps their family. So that we can make good decisions around this
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Well, sometimes you don’t even know what those are until you’re in community with other people talking about their experiences because we just go well, that’s how it is for everybody, right? And I love that you use the word unearthed, because I often say it’s an excavation, and you’ll find little nuggets of gold. You don’t have to wait for the whole thing to be excavated before you take action before you make money, because sometimes there’ll be a little Nugget that I’m still learning all the time, and I go. No wonder I do that thing. I’ve got passion for myself. Okay, now I can go do that thing because I know it’s an old story, and that is a constant process. There’s no destination at the end. It’s you. Can. You can make money while you’re learning all these lessons and being imperfect, because that’s actually the lesson. Right is, you don’t have to be perfect, to have whatever you want to have
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. And I think you bring up something important there as well, because sometimes you can’t learn the thing until you’re doing the thing that triggers, the old memory or the feeling. I used to listen to. People say, You know, you can’t work on relation. You should work on yourself for a relationship before you get into a relationship. And it’s like, yeah. But as soon as you get into the relationship, that’s when the stuff’s going to show up for you to work on and I guess it’s the same with anything, isn’t it? And the same with money. I mean, if you, if you end up in a position where you don’t have a lot of money in your bank account. It’s going to trigger something if you end up in a position where you’ve got a lot of money in your bank account. It’s going to trigger something.
If you have somebody ask you a question about your pricing, then it could bring something up for you. But if those things aren’t happening, you can’t necessarily pay attention to what it is that you need to work on
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, absolutely. Which is why a lot of people find my work when they have something like that happen, you know they go. Why can’t I say my price? Why can’t I charge, or I feel stuck at a particular income level? But you really nailed it, and I sometimes would have people at the start when I was doing more one to one work with this, and they would they would be really analytical about it, and they’d be like. Well, tell me what’s going to happen if I do this work, you know. Tell me what’s going to happen if I do that excavation work, and I’m like you have to just do it.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, but you don’t know
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yeah, no, exactly. It’s like, well, yeah, you don’t know. And same with things like, you know, we’re talking on a podcast. Now, 10 years ago, when I started doing podcast interviews, this would have kept me up all night. I would have been sleepless all night thinking, what am I going to talk about. And now I’ve done probably a thousand podcast interviews. Right does not bother me at all. The idea, though, of going on live TV it would terrify me, you know, and so I always think it’s like what scares you today won’t scare you tomorrow if
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yes.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: With the repetition of it, and then you can, you know, do that excavation work when something comes up
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. And I think that speaks to like, don’t limit yourself. I could say the same. I would never have imagined I’d have started my own podcast and I love it. I love it. And I used to be very organized. And I’d think of all the questions I was going to ask, and I’d send them to the person, and I’d be rehearsing what I was going to say. And now I just like Hey, Denise, like you know, a few little things to check in before we hit record. And then it’s like, let’s just have a chat. So it’s that thing I think of don’t limit yourself, and I think that’s the same with money. Now I come from a sort of middle class background. But then, when I came to Australia, I ended up in a domestic violence relationship. I ended up as a single parent. I was on welfare for a time. One of my hardest memories around money was when I was still married. I’m now remarried to a very beautiful man, so I’m not talking about him.
But when I was married, walking around the supermarket with a calculator. because I had very, very limited amount of money to spend on food and I know that that used to play into a lot of things for me. but I think it’s this thing of don’t limit yourself because you just don’t know what’s going to change, how life’s going to be, and the sort of decisions you can make, and I can remember through my career having conversations with my now husband sort of saying, Oh, I want to increase my prices. But what if all my clients leave, and and these real fear-based decisions to now, you know, creating new offers and pricing them in a way that feels right for the value that I’m giving and what I want to be earning for my time and and knowledge and education, and what I’m providing as a service.
So I think, you know, not limiting ourselves is really really important. And if we don’t understand what we’re holding and what we’re carrying, and the stories we tell ourselves and the beliefs we have, we absolutely can limit ourselves. Can’t we
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Absolutely. And that’s again where that curiosity piece
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: To say, Where is this coming from? And how is it? How is it benefiting me, or how is it harming me? And so Mark and I come from similar in some ways, but different. So he’s from the Uk. Grew up in a small town, also with a single mom. But the way that our mums were around money was very different. So his mom was very good with money, but the way she showed her love was through abundance of food.
And for us, because we moved a lot. My mom is a just in time kind of cook, right? So she’ll still do it. Today. She’ll go to the shops and she’ll buy one carrot, one onion and everything in our. She just doesn’t like to have a lot of possessions and things, and now she lives in a motor home which is exactly her personality. Right? So Mark and I got to a point in our marriage where he would stand in front of the cupboard in the fridge, and he would say, There’s nothing to eat, and I would go into absolute panic in my body.
Because I would feel the scarcity of that, because for me, my! I was, I would look at that same cupboard and think we could make 20 different things from that right? Because my mom was, is that person. She can make a whole meal out of a French onion soup mix, and a carrot and an onion, and maybe a bit of meat right? And so I had to. I had to. First I had to sit with that and go. Why is this triggering me so much? And then to sit down, not only to do the work myself, but also to sit with him and say this for you. You’re looking at that going, you know, for that level of food in the cupboard your mom would be panicking and thinking, I don’t have enough for everyone, because that’s how she showed her love abundance. A chest freezer, you know, an overflowing cupboard for me. That gives me panic because I think, what if we have to flee literally a domestic violence situation? And we’ve got all this stuff.
And what are we going to do with all this stuff. It felt like a burden. Then the next realization for me, even a couple of years later, was when I would feel very uncomfortable when people would give me gifts, and I still do a little bit, because then I was like, now I have to take care of your stuff, too.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I’m responsible for
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Your stuff when I have to flee in the middle of the night, and it felt like a burden, and so then, to be able to sit down with Mark and say, when you say there’s nothing to eat, my 6 year old self thinks that she’s going to starve, and it
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Incredibly scared, and and then we could. We could change our language around that
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And that was life changing for me. But also again, there’s nothing wrong. This is just, you know, my conditioning. And also I can understand. You know my triggers and and see then where it shows up, and that’s the work that I do with people, not just. We don’t just excavate for the sake of it we go. What is a direct consequence of that? What belief did you decide in that moment what things have kind of calcified a little bit, you know, and then directly, what’s your behavior now? So for someone hearing, you’re not allowed to talk about money or getting into trouble for that
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Setting your prices is going to feel horrible, raising your prices is going to feel horrible, telling telling someone they owe you money, sending an invoice chasing an invoice is going to feel in every fiber of your being. I’m doing something wrong. So you you excavate that, and then you create a different pattern. So for me. Obviously, I’m not a psychologist. I’m not trained in any of those modalities, but even just having community around you that’s doing something different, saying something different. And I love to use affirmations as a pattern interrupter for myself, so it could be. Instead of you know, Mark and I saying, there’s nothing to eat. We started to say, lucky we’re rich.
And that became our pattern interrupt of going. Wow! I’m I’m safe. There’s always more. That’s okay.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: One sec.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And that’s then you can have that compassion for yourself.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Change.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. And that’s so. Key, isn’t it? Moving yourself out of your threat system? I work with a compassion focused therapy framework which I used when I was a psychologist and bring into all of my work and really teach people the emotional regulation system of threat, drive, and soothing, so that we can understand. When we’re in threat, we need to regulate our nervous system. We need to move ourselves out of threat so that we can make decisions from a from a wise place and then take action on that. So I love that that’s part of the process, because, like you said, there’s no point excavating for the sake of it.
And then you just this stuff that you feel really crap about. This is so bad. So we need to then say, okay, how can I recognize a what it is be when it’s showing up? And then what can I do to shift myself out of threat and make a new decision, perhaps. Tell myself, like you say, whether it’s an affirmation, or whether, whatever it is that is helpful and give yourself a new story, a new narrative. I was taught to people in terms of, you know, creating a new history to look back on because when our history is difficult, for whatever reason or unhelpful, that’s all we have to look back on. But as we start to create these changes and we do things differently, we create a new history to look back on and then we can draw on that like. Now you can look back and say, Well, you do have enough money in the bank, and you do have enough food, and if there’s not enough food in the cupboard, you’ve got plenty of money in the bank to go buy some more you know
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Absolutely.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Order online, go to the shops. Whatever you need to do
Denise Duffield-Thomas: I even think it’s beyond that for me. I love that you said create a new history because, this week my daughter, all my kids had to wear something orange to school
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And you know, the night before, at like 5 Pm. We’re like, who’s got something orange to wear right and my daughter’s like. Oh, I can wear this dress, and it was like this long flowy dress. I’m like, you can’t wear this. So I dyed a white shirt with food coloring and then stamped like the name. And I was thinking, this is what my mom taught me right to to create, be creative with what you have
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And in that moment it did feel like I rewrote that story a little bit and go. Oh, God! I’m a resourceful person!
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, that’s true.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And I’m so, you know, even having undiagnosed Adhd for years, which was such a source of stress for those last minute craft projects and homework projects. I was like I was born for this. This is great. And then the next day, because it was still wet, like blow drying this shirt and just going.
Nothing’s bad, nothing’s wrong. I’m this is fun, you know.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. And that’s beautiful as well, isn’t it? Because, you know, some of the stuff we all look back on in life is not easy to look back on, and it’s it’s not been helpful. But I think if you can draw some of that, okay, this is that part of the story. But then there’s also this part of the story, and perhaps that’s the part I’m going to take with me, because that is the part that’s going to be helpful. You know there are a lot of things that I’ve been through in my life.
People say, Oh, do you wish you hadn’t? I’m like no? Well, no, I don’t, because I’ve learned so much, and there’s things I’ve taken from those. So I love that you’ve been able to kind of. Look at that and go. Yeah, actually, it’s made me a very resourceful person.
And there’s things you will do that are probably from an environmental perspective as well. Probably not wasteful, you know.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, God, it’s I’ve taken that too far sometimes, too, because I remember as a kid when there was the Council pickup day, where everyone put all their stuff out in the street, and I’d be like, oh, what can I do with this? And I’m still a little bit like that? I’m like, oh, what can I do with you? Oh, I can transform you and and then Mark makes me throw it. He’s like, what are you gonna do with this, and I’m like I will transform it one day and so then now I’ve got a bit more resources, I can. I I went a little bit too far on that at some stage of my life where I was like. Oh, I’m responsible for all the broken things
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And then going back and recalibrating that and going. I can choose, you know. I can choose. you know, to make something out of trash, and I can also buy something. And you know, going, we often overcompensate, don’t we? And then we have to find that healthy medium
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, I love, you know you speak so much to that need for awareness of self like you’re so aware of what and maybe not. In that initial moment, you know, as most of us, we we do something, and we reflect. But that awareness of once we get to know what we’re doing? Is it helpful? Is it harmful?
Do we want to keep doing it? What is it doing in terms of the other choices and decisions we’re making in our business. So I love that you speak so much to that. But also you mentioned undiagnosed Adhd. I also am late identified. I was identified autistic Adhd at age 52,
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Wow!
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Might have been helpful if it was a bit earlier than that. But however, here we are, you attract, as do I, entrepreneurs and business owners of which I don’t know the statistics. I’m quite curious, and one day might look into it a bit more. Quite curious about the statistics of neurodivergence. Sorry, neurodivergent entrepreneurs and business owners. But we spoke before recording that we we attract a lot of neurodivergent folk.
What are some of the things, I guess, particularly with Adhd, because there can be a lot of impulsivity that you notice with. Perhaps you know the people you’ve worked with, or conversations you’ve had with people in terms of money, management or money skills with that, and maybe some things that could perhaps be helpful for people to hear if they are struggling in that way.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So I was diagnosed at 42. I’m 45 now. And it was very obvious now, when you look back, that I did have my whole childhood. But I think because my mom is so off the charts also undiagnosed. I felt like I was the normal one. Yeah. So I was like, I’m normal. They’re all nuts and disorganizing. And you know. So I developed mechanisms very early on. And also I wrote my book chill and prosper prediagnosis.
And I realized that it’s a manual for ADHD. Very much like one of the chapters is called Keyless Life about how to create systems in your business. And I’m like, that’s literally because I lost my keys my whole life, which is such a classic Adhd thing. And yeah, I agree with you, I think what it’s like 15% of the normal population. I would say it’s like 90% plus in the entrepreneurial world. And because we do seem to flock together right? And so I do see as exactly what you said, that impulsivity, the instant gratification which makes us brilliant action takers oftentimes right, because we don’t have to think things through a lot of the times. We can kind of just go with our gut. And then I see, you know as people make more money, it’s the same behavior, just with bigger, bigger numbers. And so and I’ve had to watch that in myself, too, of just going. Well, there’s always more money, you know. It’s only money, whatever. And taking that prosperity mindset a little bit too far into like almost like magical thinking a little bit right, and and knowing that there is a happy medium, I am not great with money still, and so what I’ve had to do is I have a financial team.
They send me reports every month. I meet with them quarterly to discuss taxes. And so it’s not like changing your behavior. It’s being understanding and going. This is something that I do. I can be very impulsive, and a good example of that is, I almost bought a house and I had my financial advisor there, and he was going. There’s something wrong with this house and I was going shut up, Steve, you’re being such a Debbie downer. You know I was like, I’ve made my decision like I went. I saw the house. I went home. I started packing and put my house on the market, and my mom’s friend was visiting, and she was going. What are they doing? Because we just started packing up the house and Mom goes. They’ve made a decision right? And so we were in negotiation with this house, and we kept on bidding more and more, and my financial guy was going. I’m going to find out what’s wrong with this house. And he went and did all the research, and he goes. They don’t have a building certificate. It was an owner builder. They don’t have building certificate. If you get this certified you might have to pull the whole house down
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And it I almost. There was a point where I was like, I don’t care. And then I went. You know what. Let’s just sit on it and let’s not make the decision. And it felt like I’m going to be really crassy. It felt like a spot that I was holding in that. I I was like, and that’s what sometimes that feels like for me when I just want to take action. I’m like, but I’ve got it. I’ve got it
Dr Hayley D Quinn: That’s the bubble. I’ve got to get the dopamine, or whatever it is, and you might think, oh, God! That sounds so unrelatable doing it with a house, but I was like that with little. Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Trinkets or bits as a kid where I’ve got a dollar. So I have to spend this dollar. Otherwise I’m going to vomit from the, you know, anticipation of it. And so I I just said, I’m just gonna not take action on this
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And we decided to pull out, and it went for auction a couple of months later, at like 1.5 million less than we had bid for it. And so I have to have those things in my life, because I do not have the capacity to go and do that research and to find out those things. And so I need to put little mechanisms in my life. And it’s almost like what they say in like alcoholics anonymous where they’re like you can drink tomorrow. But you can’t drink today, and I sometimes do that with myself when I feel the urge to blow everything up, you know, when Adhd people are like burn everything to the ground. And I go. Okay, you can do that tomorrow.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Tomorrow. Yeah. Give. Yourself.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: I’m sorry.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Nice
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Exactly, or you can buy that thing tomorrow or just sleep on it. And then I sometimes just forget about it. And I had to watch, because I actually had a lot of enablers in my life, not in a bad way, actually in a really good way, where for a while, where, especially at my farm, because we, you know, built this beautiful farm, and I’d go. Oh, what would it look like to, you know? Pull that treat, and they’d go. They’d just go do it
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Whereas if it was up to me it would never happen. I would just go. Wouldn’t that be nice? also, I think, too, when you’re a creative person, and you can like, always think of the bad things, or is it catastrophizing? I always say it wrong. Yeah. So what I would say to myself in that moment, I’d go. You’re creative. That would be an amazing book. Be such a good movie. And it just it like pops that bubble for me, of of getting too hyper focused on and I so I share that, you know alcoholics anonymous thing not to be in a trite way. I hope no one feels that way but a lot of the time for us neurodivergent people. We get a little hyper focus on something, even if it’s not in our best interest
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And and so just using those tools to say, Yep, you can burn it down tomorrow. But it’s not today. You can, you know, buy that thing tomorrow, but not today. We won’t always get that all the time, you know, I’ve definitely bought courses. I shouldn’t have
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, says everybody. All this
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Who hasn’t said that
Denise Duffield-Thomas: But on the flip side, I’ve seen people who have taken years to make a single. Should I start a podcast what are the pros and cons
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: You could have, you could have just started podcast by now. So it’s finding where it works for us and and where it doesn’t. Yeah, mechanisms. And as I said, I’m never going to be that research person. But I can hire someone, and sometimes I listen to him, and sometimes I don’t
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Finding that happy medium for ourselves, isn’t it? But again you speak to knowing yourself like, if you didn’t, if you didn’t take the time to know yourself and and be really radically honest with yourself. That I am not that person that’s going to do. The research you could have, you know, made some really unhelpful decisions. So I think when we can know ourselves and we can, we can be willing to be honest about this isn’t who I am. And actually I need somebody else to take over that, or I need to just not do that thing, or whatever it might be. I think that’s what becomes really, really helpful. Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Well, it does, and then you can. You can be very practical around that right? So I often say to people around like their business model. If you’re someone who needs a lot of variety and a lot of freedom don’t sell a long term, mastermind, because I see it in people or a membership necessarily, because I see people get to month 2 or 3, and they’re just like, Oh, my God, what have I done? And so, just because you can do all the things
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: You should. I’ve had like my husband, Mark, when he came in the business. He was like everyone’s asking for a mastermind. This is an amazing opportunity. And I went. It’s not my thing for the phase of life that I’m in as well. I’m like I cannot do that business more. He’s like we could make an a million extra
Dr Hayley D Quinn: It was out of it all right.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, he’s like we could make an extra 1 million dollars out of it. And I was like but it’s not my business model, someone else they would love that it would fill them up. It would be, you know, it feels so good, and I think we sometimes go against our you know, knowing ourselves because a mentor has told us, or someone else that we look up to has that business model, and it does not work for us. And so
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: We have to have the awareness. But we also have to have the permission and the self compassion to say, it’s okay that that’s not for you right now. And it’s okay that you do this thing. It doesn’t mean that you’re unworthy
Dr Hayley D Quinn: No, no.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: More money, or you know, it’s the perfectionism that we have in ourselves. It can be so crippling
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, I think a lot of self doubt in people leads them to copy or think that they need to do it the way somebody else is doing which which can lead to things that are just not helpful at all. And I do apologize. Typical Adhd. I have so many alarms in my phone to help me through my day, which I always have had, and when I got identified I was like, that’s why I have like 752,000 notes and 12 alarms a day. So yes, apologies for that rather awful
Denise Duffield-Thomas: No problem. No, I get it as well. I have mine. It’s like I’ve got one that’s like stretch and drink some water, you know. Take your meds. It’s so funny when people say that Adhd Meds are addictive, and I have to set alarms to remind myself to date
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I’m saying, really, if I only I could remember
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Exactly remember to fill them. Yeah. And I, yeah, I filled mine yesterday, and I was like and procrastinated for a couple of weeks on that I’m like.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I mean, it’s, you know, that there’s there’s things that are really helpful, like you say, and really powerful about being neurodivergent and allow you to do the things you do, and then there’s things that are difficult. I knew I had to take my medication this morning. I was like, Well, I’m going to do a podcast. I’ll take it before and then forgot to turn off my 8, 45 alarm, which is, when I normally take it. So there we go.
You mention in or I mentioned in your bio that you talk about yourself as a lazy introvert, and I know you use that term kindly. I certainly would ask people to reflect on that word if they were using it in a critical way. But I know you don’t, but also an unbusy mum of 3, which I think people might be listening and go. How on earth can you be a business owner and have 3 children and be unbusy. So what I would like to ask is, How do you take care of yourself in the what I’m sure has a level of busyness to it? Because how could it not
What sort of things you do? Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: The reason why I say unbusy, mum, is because I noticed in the media, whenever someone, whenever there’s the word of Mom, they always have to use the word busy in front of it in a way that you never say busy dad of 3. And so it was a little bit of a tongue in cheek way to disrupt that busy mom kind of thing. And of course, life is full.
My kids are at the moment they’re 6, 8, and 11, and they have a ton of activities that they all have to be in different places.
And yet I think, where I want to encourage people to do as well is again. It’s the phase of your life, the season of your life, and to honor that. And I’ve really surrendered to that at the moment to say, actually, I can’t go and do speaking gigs in this phase of my life. I choose not to do it? I could I absolutely. Could. I choose not to add that stress to my life? Do I want to do lots of big launches I choose not to in this season of my life, and also it’s really important for me now to do things that are just for me. So I do. Ballet. I do 8 classes of ballet a week.
I make art. I do all of these things because I want my kids to see as well. My life is important, too, and my art is important. It’s not just about driving you to ballet class. I’ve got my own ballet class to as well. And so then there’s consequences to that. So and that’s why I said, there’s no bad business model. It’s always just
Dr Hayley D Quinn: No.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Implications. Right? There’s customer service implications, or there’s team implications to any way that you run your business. When my kids were smaller I had a full time housekeeper, because I was in a busy period of my life where I wanted to make lots of money, and I wanted to, you know work more. So. The consequence of that is, I couldn’t do all of those things at home and I’m using consequence, not in a bad way. There was energy implications
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: If I wanted to do that amount of work
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Something had to give, and it wasn’t going to be me
Denise Duffield-Thomas: You know I hate when people say advice, get up at 4, 30, and I’m like no
Dr Hayley D Quinn: No, thank you
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Good advice. And so and some people will be like, well, I can’t afford that. Well, it’s like, Yes, okay. What can you afford
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Right now. And so I met someone multimillionaire. She still does all her own laundry, and I remember just going why, and I get it now because she didn’t have. She was in a phase of life where she’s like. I’m surrendering to the phase of life my kids are at. I don’t have an active business at the moment. Yeah, I don’t have anything big projects. And my my full time housekeeper moved away about a year ago, and I just went actually don’t need that level of support at home at this phase of my life. And so I’m the one doing the laundry at the moment while I get the kids to help me do it. And I’m like.
I’m a multimillion, am I? And I’m like I don’t need to have that right now, but I did that. I did that a couple of years ago where I was like, I’m not going to cook a meal. I’m not going to wash a thing because I am doing this
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And I think that is again, it’s that you can be really busy and not feel like it. If it’s a choice
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. And you know, when you just when you feel like I have to.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: That’s when you feel burdened, resent for all of the things. So it, and especially if you’re starting, and you don’t have the budget to do it. And say, for example, you’re starting your business. You don’t do the laundry. 1st the laundry comes at the end. You do your money making work, you do your joy work. The housework fits into your life. You don’t not the other way around, and sometimes that is a money and a budget thing. But I actually think for so many people. It’s a mindset thing I feel guilty if I don’t. You know, the kitchen’s probably a mess there. Because, I started my podcast today at 7, am and mark had to get the kids.
I’m like. But this, this is what I’m doing. This is important to me. And so when we 1st started my business and yes, we didn’t have kids. But I remember Mark saying, Oh, can you go to the post office for me, or why didn’t you put washing on? And I said because I was working, and I had to set boundaries with him, with friends, with family. To say this, this is important to me. To carve out time for the laundry can wait, you know I don’t care if the kitchen isn’t dirty, and also do your chores on your lunch. Break
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: This is. This is what I’m building for our family. And you know, it’s really then going to. How do I run my business. I can’t do everything right now closing some of those loops of going I should be, you know, writing 50 books this year. No, no, no! What’s the one thing you can do this year that will make you the money. And honestly, sometimes we think it’s a time and money thing so many times. It’s a permission thing, and pissing people off and saying No.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: People. And they, I love Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I love that you excuse me. I love that you spoke to that. I think it’s important that people hear people say I was privileged enough to have a full time housekeeper. I was privileged enough to pay someone else to do this, because I think, particularly for people who identify as women. There are a lot of people out there who look and think. Why can’t I manage it all? What’s wrong with me that I can’t cope with running my business, and looking after the children, and running the household, and doing the shopping and cooking the meals Things, and Cherie Clonan from the digital picnic recently
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, I love free.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Cool and I’ve just been at her conference. It was amazing. So next time the conference is on, people should definitely go. It’s fantastic. But she wrote an article around. People who are successful are not doing all these things themselves. They are in a position where there’s people doing other things in the background, and I think it is important for people to hear that. But also I love that around that mindset piece, because again, I think we’ve been socialized to, but you’re supposed to have the washing done. You’re supposed to have the meals done. You’re supposed to do all these things and I mean for some people. Maybe you’re you’re doing this as a hobby. Most people I speak to and work with. This is not a hobby. This is a legitimate business. and it deserves to be treated like a legitimate business. And like, you say, maybe that’s hard conversations with people saying, actually, that’s not just my responsibility, or that needs to wait till I finish work, because what I’m doing is important. So I love that you spoke about those. Now, I’m really mindful of the time, and that you are on a schedule to do some more podcasts. But I do need to ask you my question, that I ask everybody and that is, if you could meet your 80 year old self today. What do you think she would say to you?
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, wow! Well, I actually hope my 80 year old self is still being a creative person. So I actually think. you know, I would love to just both of us to celebrate each other. Really, you know, that’s that’s the thing. And I there’s some things in my life I can’t do right now, you know, one of like one of my dreams is to be in a show, like, you know, like in a Broadway show, and I’m like that will come. That will come later, and I’m like, what are all the shows that have old lady roles in them?
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Oh, I love that
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Because because I’m just again surrendering to the thing of this is a time of my life where my kids need me. But they’re not going to need me forever. And I’m gonna continue to be a creative person for the rest of my life. So
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: And I hope that she would say that to me as well, and to say, There is time. Just continue, you know, being creative and giving yourself permission to be creative, because that’s where it’s gonna that’s where it’s going to lead to. And I hope she’s just doing cool stuff. And I was actually listening to John Lithgow on a podcast yesterday. And he’s like 85 or something, right? And he’s just living his creative life. And I’m like. That’s what we all want for ourselves. And Jane Fonda’s coming to Australia. I’m going to go see her
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Oh! Fantastic!
Denise Duffield-Thomas: He’s creating things.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Know, making movies and being an activist. And I’m like best. There’s time for it
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Oh, yeah, it’s not too late. It’s never too late. Right
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Absolutely. And it’s that scarcity thing right, you know, is the cupboard half empty, half full, and I just think no, I am a affirmation I created a couple of years for myself was, I am a creative genius, and when I remind myself of that, then I go. I am creative. I am a problem solver. And just because I’m in this phase of life where my kids need me a little bit more.
Denise Duffield-Thomas: I’m allowed to do it. And so that that gave me permission then to make art to do my cross stitch to do my ballet, because that’s who I am. I’m a creative genius, and however that comes out doesn’t have to just be with work
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. Oh, that’s fantastic, and I don’t know if you can hear the drilling that I can hear
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, is it? Yeah, okay, yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I just want to end on this thing that you know, we can plan things, can’t we? I plan to have this podcast. Before 9 o’clock, because that’s when people are not allowed to start any work in the building. But the the person upstairs has decided that they are a rule breaker. So
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Like it’s close enough
Dr Hayley D Quinn: It’s close enough
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Oh, my God!
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Thank you. I planned this so well, but best laid plans. But, Denise, thank you so much for coming on and chatting. I just know that people will have found this really helpful. It’s been an absolute pleasure talking to you, and I just wish you all the best with your business, your creative pursuits, all the things
Denise Duffield-Thomas: Thank you, Haley, and if anyone wants to connect, I’m on social media at Denise, Dt. So Instagram is probably my thing that I’m on the most. And then my website is denisedt.com as well. So thank you for having me on Haley. I appreciate all the questions and all the juicy conversation, and I’ll see you next time
Dr Hayley D Quinn: You’re so welcome, and I’ll put all those details in the show notes so people can come and check you out. Thanks so much. See you all next week
Thanks for sharing this time with me today, I hope it’s been helpful and supportive.
If there’s been something in this episode that you have found helpful, I encourage you to share it with your business besties so they can benefit too. Shares, ratings and reviews really help to increase awareness and reach of the podcast, meaning more people can benefit from the information. I really appreciate you taking the time.
If you’d like to know about the ways we can work together, check out my website at drhayleydquinn.com, I’ll pop the link in the show notes, and you can also join my mailing list from there and be kept up to date with all that is happening.
I do need to say (because you know legal stuff), this podcast is solely for the purpose of education and entertainment. This podcast is not intended as a substitute for individual advice or advice of health professionals or other qualified professionals.
OK now we’ve got that formal stuff out of the way, I love hearing from listeners so don’t be shy, reach out and let me know your thoughts on the episode or what else you’d like to hear about. I wish you well in your relationship with yourself and your business and may you go well and go gently and remember if you thrive your business will too!
Denise Duffield Thomas Links
Website: www.denisedt.com
Instagram: @denisedt
Facebook: @denisedt
Links to Dr Hayley D Quinn Resources
Reclaim Your Time and Energy: 6 Key Boundaries for Women Business Owners
Download here, completely FREE! https://drhayleydquinn.com/resources/
Link to podcast mailing list: https://drhayleydquinn.com/podcast/
Group Coaching Waitlist: https://drhayleydquinn.myflodesk.com/timetothrivewaitlist
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drhayleydquinn
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedIn.com/in/dr-hayley-d-quinn-43386533
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drhayleydquinn
