Links to Dr Hayley D Quinn Resources
Reclaim Your Time and Energy: 6 Key Boundaries for Women Business Owners
Download here, completely FREE! https://drhayleydquinn.com/resources/
Book now available: https://drhayleydquinn.com/product/book/
Link to podcast mailing list: https://drhayleydquinn.com/podcast/
Group Coaching Waitlist: https://drhayleydquinn.myflodesk.com/timetothrivewaitlist
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drhayleydquinn
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedIn.com/in/dr-hayley-d-quinn-43386533
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drhayleydquinn
Caitlin Bell’s Links:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bellcopyco/
Website: bellcopyco.com
Psychology Website: https://www.caitlinbellpsychologist.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cbpsychologist/
This transcript is computer generated and may contain errors and not be an exact representation of the audio
Hi this is Welcome to Self® and I’m your host, Dr Hayley D Quinn, the anti-burnout business coach. I’m a speaker, author, former clinical psychologist and a late identified auDHDer.
Welcome to Self ® is a podcast for business owners like you who want success but not at the cost of your well-being. This is about transforming self and transforming business. I’ll be here to remind you that you’re human first and as well as being a business owner, you have different roles in your life that need your attention and to manage those well, you need to take care of yourself in the best way possible.
Here you’ll learn about practices that’ll help you navigate not just your business but your non-work life as well and you’ll realise that you’re not alone in the ways you struggle. You’ll have your curiosity piqued on various topics as I chat with wonderful guests and bring you solo bite-sized episodes.
I’m here for service-based business owners and entrepreneurs like you, to help you increase your self-care and compassion, change your relationship with yourself and your business, and elevate your business to a new level so you can live the full and meaningful life you desire.
This is a place of nourishment, growth and helpful information. A place where you can learn ways to assist you and your business to thrive.
We’ll talk all things mindset, strategy and well-being and I’m so excited you’re here. If you haven’t already, go and hit subscribe so you don’t miss an episode.
So, let’s get started
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Hi! And welcome to another episode. I hope your week is going well, and if not that you’re giving yourself the compassion and nurturing that you so deserve. Today I’m bringing you a great guest episode with someone I’ve been fortunate enough to work with, and also now call a friend. So let me introduce you. What do you get when you cross a therapist with a copywriter? Caitlin Bell. a clinical psychologist turned copywriter. Caitlin helps healthcare professionals turned entrepreneurs translate their expertise into personality, filled words, so they attract the right clients and own their creative freedom with a background. In psychology she brings deep understanding of human behavior to copywriting. whipping up messages that make people say. Finally, I’ve found my person. she hosts the podcast healers with hustles. spotlighting healthcare professionals who’ve bravely stepped out into creative careers. You’ll find an episode I did with Caitlin on there. So after you’ve listened to this, go and check that one out, too. when Caitlin’s not writing. She’s probably eavesdropping in a cafe for research, obviously, or hanging out with her extremely cute Mini Schnauzer Heidi. It’s my absolute pleasure to welcome Caitlin to welcome to self. Hey, Caitlin! Thanks so much for coming on
Caitlin Bell: Oh, thank you so much for having me. It’s such a such a treat. We’ve talked about this for a little while, and I’m so excited. We finally, yeah, we’ve done it. We’ve made it
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Fantastic, lovely. So maybe start with telling the audience a little bit about. You know you’ve been a psychologist, and now you’ve become a copywriter. How did you get to that place?
Caitlin Bell: Yeah, it’s a good. It’s a good question. I? I. So yeah, I’m now a clinical psychologist which is cool to be able to say that I almost didn’t get there, which maybe we can touch on as well. But I found that like probably a lot of health, you know, psychologists that you’ve had on the podcast being a psychologist can be very like quite heavy at times. And I was finding myself. I don’t know getting a little bit like teetering towards the edge of burnout like constantly, and there was just a little part of me that was always wanting to do something creative. And at the time I was working in palliative care as a psychologist. And I, you know, I obviously sit with people at the end of their lives, which was such an honorable, like, such an honorable job, and like the common thread that I constantly hear between people was, you know, like that they lived a full life, and they’ve done everything they wanted to do and like they wouldn’t die wondering. And it kind of, I think, planted a seed for me to go. Well, what do I really want in life? What do I want? Is psychology something I want like, I. I do love being a therapist and a psychologist, but it’s a lot particularly to do it full time. And so then I discovered what copywriting was, and I was like, oh, my gosh, this is it so fun? Like I can be myself, I can do. I can. Yeah, I can have fun while I work, and there’s no real restrictions, which is very cool.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: That’s so cool. And my gosh, yeah, I mean, you know, obviously, I’m a former clinical psychologist myself, and it can be very heavy work. And, you know, working in palliative care in end of life that is obviously going to be something that has really heavy moments. But I love also that you kind of took the learnings from people in that to reflect and ask yourself. well, hang on! What am I going to be saying to myself at the end of life. You know we don’t. We want. don’t we? I mean, I check in a lot with my 80 year old self pretty much on a daily basis. Think you know, what would she want me to be doing? So that when I get to the end of my life, which hopefully will be much past 80. But we don’t know, do we. that I can look back and think, yeah, I did the thing. So I love that you. You didn’t just kind of do the work, but you you took the work you were doing, and used it to help you reflect on yourself as well, and then you you found copywriting
Caitlin Bell: Yes, that’s it. No, I love how you put that. And I think it kind of I wasn’t. It’s only like looking back that I realized like, Oh, my gosh, that was such an important moment. And I kind of just naturally occur. But yeah, absolutely. It was something that I think I’ve always been interested in. like, you know, existentialism and meaning and all of that. And so it just was a natural thing. But now, yeah, copywriting, which is totally totally different from psychology. Like, right? We’ve got a it’s like part of copywriting. It’s so important to, you know, like, know, people and beliefs and desires and all of that. So I think it’s a really nice background
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Absolutely.
Caitlin Bell: You’re right
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Be such a great fit, because to write good copy, you need to understand people and human behavior and all that. And obviously, as a psychologist. Then you’ve got that background. But but I’m curious. I mean, I was running 2 different businesses until I decided to let go of my psychology registration. How do you find running? Those and yours are far more different to me. I was doing psychology and supervision. But then, also coaching. I think what you’re doing is is perhaps even more different to the to the 2, the things that I was doing. I’m curious to how do you kind of manage that. How do they fit together, or do you keep things very separate, like compartmentalize things a lot? How do you do that?
Caitlin Bell: So really like. It’s such a. I think I’m still kind of figuring it out for sure. But I’m a lot better than I was in terms of like making. It makes sense to me like particularly. Last last year, the start of last year, I was in quite a moment of like adjustment and transition. And it was caused me a lot of stress about like, how can I be 2 at once like, how can I be like a psychologist and a copywriter like, how can I be doing this? And it came down to a lot of my own like beliefs. I think about the industry about like what I was allowed to do, like my views of like authority. And then I internalized that, and I think once I worked that out, I was able to sit a lot better with the 2. But yeah, like you said, I’ve now they’re both very different, both on different, totally different days of the wake, you know, like I have obviously like different instagrams and all of that. But I think that’s how I manage. It is by keeping them really separate
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: Which I don’t know. It’d be nice if they were to be able to have them together as one. But
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: I think it’s just for my own. I know. Yeah, having it separate. It’s just where it’s sitting at the moment
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. And I think you know, as a registered psychologist, you do have the regulations around you from
Caitlin Bell: Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Arpa, the governing body that don’t perhaps allow you to completely combine them
Caitlin Bell: Yes, exactly. And that’s a big part of it, too, isn’t it? So? I think that’s also probably a way for me to be able to. Yeah, have the boundaries and
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: All of that, and probably also to be able to sit with the ethics of it more as well to be able to do that which is, yeah, of course it’s so important. But it’s also super restrictive, right? And as you know, all about
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, you have such a wonderful personality, just as a human being full stop. You have such a wonderful personality in your copywriting, like some of your content, is hilarious. I mean, whether people need a copywriter or not. I think they should go and follow you anyway, at Bell Copy Co. And I will put everything in the show notes as well for both your businesses. But you just bring a lightness and joy, I think, to the Instagram feed, which is lovely, or wherever wherever anybody is kind of following on social media. so and then you have quite a different personality, but you still shine through, I think, on your psychology stuff as well. How do you kind of navigate that? And and which would be more true to you. Do you think?
Caitlin Bell: Yeah, that’s such a good question. I love that And that’s like what definitely a value of mine that I really hold dear is fun like I want. I got into the copywriting business because I wanted more fun. I believe business should be fun, and I think that’s the ultimate goal that I want to have with, like my clients, is to have like a business that feels fun and light and joyful, and that they just they love doing? And I see. And particularly with, Yeah, it’s interesting that you say, like my copywriting. One is probably both of them. I think maybe the copywriting one is like how I my personality. But maybe, like I always say it’s like my personality. If maybe I didn’t have social anxiety
Dr Hayley D Quinn: completely on Mars, that’s a bit moreOut there
Caitlin Bell: A bit more extroverted, like in terms of like energy, whereas my psychology, one is how I it’s still my personality, and how I am, but maybe like a little bit more muted. So I think my true self. How I am is probably somewhere in between
Dr Hayley D Quinn: In between, yeah.
Caitlin Bell: Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Caitlin that I see at the coffee shop
Caitlin Bell: That’s it. Yeah, that’s it. But when it comes down to it it’s a brand voice thing, and that’s like a deliberate choice that I do. And sometimes when I’m writing the content, I’m particularly with the psychology one. I’ll start writing like the bell cop like for bell copy. And I’m like. Oh, I’ve got to reel that in some bit, too. It’s a bit, too, maybe playful
Dr Hayley D Quinn: So perhaps you know, mentioning that I just want to touch on, though, the business being fun, and I totally am with you on that I really. you know, when, when we’re going into business for ourselves. why would we want to set it up in a way that we don’t enjoy it, and I think if we can bring some fun and and lightness to it, and that doesn’t mean we get to have fun all the time. I mean, I think, in any any job, in any business. There’s stuff that you don’t want to do, the stuff you find boring. That’s just part of life right. But if we can start to inject fun and creativity and the things we enjoy into our business, then I do believe that that helps prevent burnout, and it gives us that kind of longevity and sustainability of our business. So I’m really glad that you spoke about that. But let’s just talk about copywriting for a little bit. And you mentioned Brand Voice. So could you just explain a little bit for people who might not understand what that means? What is brand voice. And why is having good copy really helpful for a business
Caitlin Bell: Yeah, so brand voice is. The way we communicate our personality. So brand, voice, and personality are totally different things. So a business, for example, could have the same personality. So maybe your like you said like a friend at the cafe, but being friendly might might sound different for different people like. So your version of Friendly is different from my version of friendly. And that’s a brand voice thing. And so really, brand voice is broken down into 3 things. So it’s like the words we use the tone of our voice, and then the cadence of our writing. So that’s like, if we use really long flowy sentences if we use really short, sharp sentences, or maybe we use a mix of each. But yeah, it’s really how we convey that personality which is super important for online, right? Like, if we all sounded the same. Well, it’s really difficult to be able to choose who we want to work with like, particularly like, you know, business coaches right? There’s so many business coaches out there, and at the end of the day a lot of the messaging is the same like helping you make more money, maybe have more time, all of these things. But brand voice is a way that we can stand out and sound different. And so that’s why copywriting is super important as well. So we can attract the people that we really really want to work with. And more importantly, like, repel the people we don’t want to work with as well. That’s an also really important thing. So someone’s 3, draw your your website or any copy that you’ve got. And they’re like, Oh, I don’t. I don’t like this. I don’t want to work with you. That’s actually a really good thing
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Absolutely absolutely. So it really is that, isn’t it? It’s like, who do we want to attract, who don’t we want to attract? But also, if somebody comes across and reads something, we really want them to be able to say, Oh, that’s Caitlin from bell copy, or Oh, that’s Dr. Hayley from welcome to self
Caitlin Bell: Yes.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. So we become recognizable in the words that we’re using
Caitlin Bell: That’s exactly it. And so a lot of the time it’s a test that you can do is by like, if you know, someone was to go to your website, or even your Instagram, and they like, were able to cover up your logo and your brand colors. And all of that would people be able to tell if it’s you? Or do you sound exactly like everyone else? And if you sound like other people, and that’s a brand voice. It’s a brand voice thing, which is, it’s easy to tweak. It’s once you know how to do it. But you’re absolutely right. We want to. Yeah, we want to stand out. And we want people to become Rec, we want people to recognize us
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. So what do you find are the biggest things that people perhaps struggle with, that you help people with? I mean, you did a fantastic job on my website. So people can check out your work there. And I’m sure there’s lots of other places. But what what tend to be the things that people struggle with.
Caitlin Bell: Hmm, so particularly for business owner like with, because I work with a lot of healthcare professionals or healthcare professionals who maybe, yeah, like yourself transitioning into something a little bit more different. And we’re used to writing in a really clinical way, right like when we write our clinical notes. It’s, you know, we often write for someone else like we’re not writing our notes for us. We’re writing them for like a health. Other professionals or colleagues, or something like that. So we use a lot of jargon, and we use a lot of shorthand and a lot of things that hide our personality. We don’t want to. We don’t want to use our personality in there, and that’s becomes a problem. When then, healthcare professionals go and write for marketing because they’ll write in that way, and they’ll be writing for health. Other colleagues, when we want to be writing for our audience, and we want to be sounding like us. So that’s probably like the biggest thing that people struggle with, that I see. And then also. what else would it be knowing like what to say? As well, you know, like sometimes they might write, even if they are okay with writing, and maybe they feel a bit confident writing how they want to speak, it’s like, what do I want to say? And so they they’ll say a lot. A huge amount, but really good copywriting is saying things in the shortest way. Possible. Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: So you’re saying a lot. With a few words
Caitlin Bell: Yes, exactly. That’s it exactly. There was. There’s a quote, and I don’t. I can’t remember who it’s by. I think it might be like I don’t know Mark Twain. I feel like Mark Twain always gets, you know, like quoted with all these things. But maybe not necessarily. But it’s like I didn’t have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead, and then
Dr Hayley D Quinn: It’s
Caitlin Bell: Like really encapsulates copywriting like you want to be able to write something in a really short way, because people have short attention, spans as well
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, and you know, and a lot of particularly if your, if your audience is people in business or or pretty much any humans these days. People are so busy like we. We just got caught up in being so busy, haven’t we? And I think sometimes
Caitlin Bell: We have.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Busy being busy, and it’s not necessarily helpful busyness. I know I will reflect sometimes and think. Do you know, I’ve had a busy week a busy week, but it’s just been a busy week. so like to look and kind of refine. Well, what am I actually doing that I don’t need to be doing. I always come and think about, you know, in the days oh, gosh! I haven’t applied for a job in a long, long time, but I’ve worked for myself for a long time, but you know, when you have to write a resume, and it’s almost easier to get somebody else to write your resume for you. Well, that was me with my website. I think it’s like, I know what I do, and I know who I am, and I know what I want to say
Caitlin Bell: That’s nice.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Start to say it. I’m like, Oh, I think somebody else would do a better job for me if they spoke to me and understood what I do. So that’s where I found it really helpful working with you in terms of you. Just have a different perspective. And when it’s not you you’re writing about. You don’t get so caught up in. Oh, is that the right thing? Or does that sound really like me? Is that really what I do so, I think it can be helpful to have somebody else to help you with this stuff.
Caitlin Bell: Oh, that’s good. I’m glad that you found that because you’re right. It’s like a little bit like trying to read the label from inside the jar like you kind of you can, but it’s sometimes a little bit. It’s easier to have someone on the outside to be able to do it to do it for you. But I love what you say about reflecting on the week and finding things that you’re being busy doing and not yeah, maybe not necessarily needing to do makes me think about what I is. There anything that you find yourself like repeatedly doing that
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Gosh! That that is a good question. Too much time in my email and not and not even work stuff. Just so much junk
Caitlin Bell: Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Comes through. I’ve got into a really good habit now of when I do check my email every day and make sure I’m unsubscribing from stuff
Caitlin Bell: Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Encourage anyone to unsubscribe from the podcast emails. But unless, of course, they are becoming too much, and it’s overwhelming. And then, I say, you know what? Now’s not the time unsubscribe from me as well, but hopefully, not not exactly hurtful. Yeah, but stuff that comes. That’s just not helpful. And I think you know. Certainly me as a neurodivergent woman, my Adhd, I can sign up subscribe to things sometimes where really I’m I’ll subscribe to that, and I’ll check it later. And then I start getting emails. And I’m thinking, who is that? Even from? I don’t even remember signing up to that. So I can get caught up in that. What else I think sometimes depending. Sometimes I can feel very focused. And if I’m in a good hyper focus, then I get some really productive work done if I’m not, and I I’m feeling a little bit more uncertain which certainly in my transition, when I stepped away from psychology. I had lots of days where I was really quite uncertain about, you know. Okay, well, if I’m not doing that, what? How do I really want to kind of build my business moving forward. and I would find myself making lots of lists. I am a list builder like I love a list. so I’d find myself doing that a lot. But I don’t know. Sometimes I think this is ridiculous. What even is this list for? So I can get caught up in stuff, and then I think I can get caught in that loop a little bit sometimes. So for me, it really is a process of regular check-ins with myself throughout the day. You know, how am I going? What do I need? What am I doing? Do I need to be doing it. Yeah. So I don’t know. There’s particularly specific things
Caitlin Bell: It would depend what it is. I can go down a canva rabbit hole. I do love canva
Caitlin Bell: so good as well
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I have a wonderful VA. Who does a lot of my stuff in canva, but I jump in sometimes, and then I’m like and then I want to make pretty things. So
Caitlin Bell: Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: But as I do that, I think when you were saying you want to be creative. So I start to think about that of like, Okay, well. and maybe that’s fine. Maybe I can just be in canva creating stuff in canva. But maybe there’s an element for me of, is there something I’d like to do in terms of maybe go to an art class or go and do pottery, or, you know, find something that is a creative outlet that I could do. That’s not work related like, I’m writing a book at the moment, and obviously that is a creative pursuit.
Caitlin Bell: Yes.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: But it’s also linked in with my work. So thinking about, perhaps if you are getting caught in particular things
Caitlin Bell: Hmm.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Is it necessary for your business? And if not, is it kind of indicating to you that perhaps there’s something you want to be doing in your life
Caitlin Bell: Yeah, that’s such a such a good point that it’s like point. There’s something like a deeper wish or desire that yourself wants, and that it’s trying to like. It’s trying to come out and trying. And it’s a good thing to listen to that. Have you ever done pottery? Is that something you’ve done before
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I have done hand pottery. I’ve never done
Caitlin Bell: Wheel.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Pottery wheel. I have done it by hand, and I really enjoyed that. It was fun
Caitlin Bell: It’s so fun, isn’t it? real one would be fun, too. I feel like, I just like get it everywhere or something. But it should be a lot of fun doing
Dr Hayley D Quinn: So what do you do to kind of? Take care of yourself? Because obviously you have that creative aspect of your copywriting. But it is worth And obviously that related. And I think sometimes when we do make it work related, it does change the dynamic of it, doesn’t it? So what sort of things do you do outside of psychology and And obviously that That’s an area. I spent a lot of time in my career focusing on self-care for therapists, that’s how the podcast 1st started. So I’m absolutely an advocate for therapists taking care of themselves. but also as a business owner, as an entrepreneur. Somebody who’s running 2 different businesses
Caitlin Bell: Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: And just as a human being, you know, we need to take care of ourselves. So how do you navigate all that? What do you do
Caitlin Bell: No? Well, it’s making me think like I spend it when I’m not working in terms of like not writing or not Doing my psychology stuff something that’s totally separate. It’d be Probably doing things outside like Go for a lot of walks, because I do have Heidi like my little dog, and she’s very energetic and needs to. Yeah, get rid of her energy. So we go for a lot of walks. I love probably also social things like one of my favorite things is like going out for lunch with a friend, and just, you know, like chatting, but hours which I know is not necessarily a hobby. My husband constantly tells me he’s like, you need a hobby. And so it’s something a hobby is something that you get better at. I’m like, okay. I could get better at like
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Better at, you know, picking quickly from the menu and
Caitlin Bell: Yeah. Exciting.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: You know conversations that are For meetings. Listening, I would never say, Don’t, I think, absolutely going for lunch with friends?
Caitlin Bell: That’s correct.Absolutely. I love that. Thank you for. Thank you for justifying that. But also I haven’t done it for a long time, but I used to do a lot of crafts like cross stitching, and like even knitting. I got into a few ones like where I would do hand knitting and like, rather than using, like the needles, you use your your hands and your arms
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Oh, wow!
Caitlin Bell: it was pretty cool, like, you make real, obviously, really chunky things. But that was a thing I used to do for quite a while so definitely like that creative side
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: Comes out.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: So that connection and being out in nature. And I wonder, do you find that quite inspiring for your, for your work as well
Caitlin Bell: Yeah, so true. Exactly like, get that space. I find that when I’m really struggling with work and writing, and like, I just can’t seem to get any inspiration I find anytime I go out for a walk. It’s like immediate, like, the ideas will just come, and I think it’s because you’re in that. I don’t know what it is like. If it’s your mind you’re not like particularly thinking about something, but like in the background, your mind’s definitely like mulling over things. And I I find that just so, so beneficial. And maybe you’re also not having your phone with you like, I think that’s also really beneficial, too. So when I go for a walk, I try not to have my phone
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: Blessing and a curse sometimes, if I have really good ideas that I can’t write it down
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, I do take my phone when I go for a walk, because I voice note myself a lot with ideas. But I also, because I live near the beach, and I often will want to take a photograph of something But I do have a bit of a rule for myself that it goes back in the I carry like a little bag. It goes back in the bag. Once the voice notes been done, and once the all the photographs been taken, it goes back in the bag, and I don’t go scrolling, or anything like that, or Calls or anything when I’m doing that
Caitlin Bell: You must be very self-disciplined. I feel
Dr Hayley D Quinn: No, I don’t think so.
Caitlin Bell: No?
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Well, not as not in a general, not in a general sense, maybe with some things, but I think
Caitlin Bell: Yes.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Right. There’s some things that we can kind of stick to, and other things. No, absolutely not but that for me, I think, because I really value that time
Caitlin Bell: Yes.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: For me, even though I have quite a lot of time by myself that time out in nature and what it brings up for me is really valued. So I don’t want to be on the phone, or answering messages, or looking on social media or anything. So that’s probably where that comes from but other times no, I can be totally not and you know you just accept yourself for who you are right and put things in place. I’m in a number of sort of accountability groups with colleagues, and I set alarms for myself all the time, because I need to. So I think you know, a lot of the premise of my work is that we need to really get to know and understand ourselves so that we can set things in place for our life that allows us to do the things that are important and put down the things that are not important
Caitlin Bell: Hmm. Oh, yeah.
I think it’s 1 of your gifts or your strengths that you really particularly as a business coach, right? Because I’ve worked with in the past. I worked with a business coach for a little while, and it was very much like you must do this. You have to set up your day up like this. It was very much like regimented. And then, yeah, so I think that’s definitely one of your strengths is that it’s about the person and what works for you, which seems like that should be like just a given way to work with people. And maybe that’s because that’s a psychology background. Clinical psychology background coming through that. That’s like such a fundamental part of
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I think you know, as a psychologist, for nearly 18 years I’m late identified autistic Adhd, so I now understand that I’m neurodivergent. And I’ve often had to do things differently in life. And I just don’t understand that you need to do it like this, because that’s obviously not going to work for everybody, and I think what can happen then is, people can feel a lot of shame and can feel quite defective about. Well, this person said, I need to get up at 5 o’clock and meditate, and then journal 3 pages, and then. you know, do this XYZ. Like this, and and it doesn’t work, and I’m not doing it, or I can’t Into it. Or I’m not getting the results that they’re saying I should. And then it becomes this self blame. And I just think that’s so wrong. We need to understand who we are, how we work. how we want to work, and, like you say, bring some creativity and fun. If something feels fun. We’re far more likely to be motivated to do it than like, oh, I’ve got to sit here because somebody told me that I have to do it this way. I mean, that’s just awful
Caitlin Bell: Particularly like that. We aren’t waking up at 4 Am. Thing
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, I, Doesn’t sound like me me
Caitlin Bell: For some people it is like, if they’re I don’t know
Dr Hayley D Quinn: And if that is for you, if you are a I want to wake up at 4 and get my day started. Then fantastic but it but it’s not for me, I mean, I was getting up prior to. We had the recent cyclone here in Queensland. Prior to that. I was getting up about 6 quarter past 6, and getting up and going out walking and going for a swim and everything. But like with many things, you know that gets disrupted, and I’ve not been getting up earlier and doing that. So I need to get back into kind of getting up and starting my day, because I was really enjoying that. But I find it quite easy. I don’t know about you that, and get into a routine, but if it gets disrupted.
Caitlin Bell: Yes.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: you know, and then I don’t get back into it. I have to kind of be like, oh, hang on a minute. I was really enjoying that get back into it So I think, accepting our humanness as well.
Caitlin Bell: Yes, that’s what we’ve got exactly. And that’s not like you said before. It’s not a like sense of defectiveness or anything like that. It’s a stereo humor and
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: Yeah, no reason to remind me, because when I was in Korea recently I was going to the gym like every day, and I’m not a gym person at all, and I got into that, and I found it enjoyable because I felt really good afterwards. It was just cool thing that I went, and like I listened to my audio books, and I, for the 1st time ever I really enjoyed it. But then, as soon as I came back to Australia and signed up. I’m out of that routine. but I can get back into it
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, so just going back to copywriting. if somebody was sort of looking, perhaps at their website or their social media, if they don’t have a website. What would be some things that you’d say? Just kind of have a look at this or this. and see what it’s looking like or how it’s feeling, and what might be something, what might be some small tweaks or things people could do for themselves if they’re not in a position to get a copywriter at this stage
Caitlin Bell: Yeah, particularly with. So if we say, like, people struggle with social media, I find like for say, if we talk about Instagram, maybe maybe that’s not a good example. I think something that’s really easy to do, particularly if we get into a a bit of a funk about. I don’t know like, if this is what I should be saying is to actually read your copy out loud. So if you, if it’s your website, even if it’s a social media. I think this goes across anything if you’re reading it. And like you’re stumbling over your words, there’s something not right there. And so that’s a really good indication for you to change what you’re saying.
Oftentimes it’s because you’re writing like in a in a way that’s really complex or formal language, or something that you wouldn’t ever say yourself. And so that’s why it can be really important. I love, like we said before, is like doing voice notes. So some people they really struggle writing, but they’re fine with talking. So that’s great voice. Note like record that then transcribe that what you’ve ever you’ve said, and then just edit it, and that can be a really easy way to
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: To get your thoughts out of your head and onto the page. Another thing is that which is really, I guess. fundamental copywriting is to focus on like benefits when you’re writing. So a lot of time, people list like features like what’s included in something or the specifics. But we really want to focus on like the outcome, or like the the transformation. And so like, what is, what does it actually do for the person? So when you’re writing
Anything. Just ask yourself like, so what like? Why is this important? And then you’ll come up with Whatever you come up with. But that’s probably a an easy thing. What else would be a good one. particularly if you’re finding that your writing’s a bit formal. Use contractions that’s probably the the biggest tip that I give people is, instead of saying, like you are like you’re or do not like, don’t. That’s a really easy way to loosen up writing
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, just to make it feel a little bit more approachable. I love that about it out loud when you’ve typed something out, and you and you saying, and I my understanding, we don’t always know who’s listening to podcasts. But my understanding is there is a number of healthcare professionals who do tune in. And I think you’re right in terms of the training. And I guess other people, if they’ve got backgrounds in other more formal fields. and they’ve shifted into something else. You can get caught in that really quite dry, quite boring way of writing
Caitlin Bell: Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: so I think, like you say, if you’re kind of reading it out loud and think, Well, does this sound like me?
Caitlin Bell: Yeah, exactly. would I say this to someone, or even imagining and like a lot of people say this, but even like writing up the top of your page like Hi, like I’d be like, Oh, Hi, Hayley! And then I’ll just write, whereas if I was talking to you like I wouldn’t talk like a clinical psychologist, I’d talk like a friend, because you’re my friend, and I think even just that is a good way to shift into a different space.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: As well if you’re really struggling. If listeners are struggling with writing
Dr Hayley D Quinn: And then, if people were thinking, oh, I mean, those are great tips, Caitlin. But gee! I’m not going to be doing that. I don’t want to write all the copy for my website, or I don’t want to write the copy for whatever. What are some of the things that you can help people with like, what are some of the services that you offer to people
Caitlin Bell: Yeah, so I do a what I help you with, which was website copywriting. So SEO, so search engine optimized website, copywriting. So that’s probably my main service that I help people with. So when they look like either rebranding, relaunching their website, or maybe they’re just changing transitioning or changing businesses, or even if they’re just wanting to have a refresh, maybe that they’ve had their website for ages, and like this isn’t necessarily suit where I am at the moment. So I help a lot of people there. And also with messaging. And so brand voice and messaging. That’s also something that I really help people with is, I run a workshop. So like an online. a 1-on-one workshop where I help people with their brand voice to like, really identify what that is, and then I can also create guides for people as well
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: So they’re probably my main, my main services at the moment, although I’m thinking about offering a service where I help psychology group practices with writing Bios for their website, because I’m doing something like that at the moment. And it’s really, of course, your bio is something that’s so important. I think particularly for healthcare professionals. We want to show our personality in a way that, like our clients who we work best with will want to work with us as well
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: That’s something that’s in the making. At the moment
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I think that’s fantastic. I know you and I have chatted a little bit about that. I think that’s a wonderful service you could offer. and particularly for people who are registered as health professionals. You’d be the ideal person because you can do the fun kind of edgy brand voice bio, whilst also holding in mind that there are certain things that you can and can’t do as a health professional. So I think you’d be a great choice for something like that
Caitlin Bell: Exactly. And that’s something that also like, yeah, I talk a lot about about personality and all this. But I also recognize that as healthcare professionals. We exist in a space where we can’t necessarily just, you know, do whatever. And so it’s really important to write in a way or work with. Yeah, my clients, in a way that they feel comfortable with what I’ve written as well, because I want people to love what they’ve written and want it to feel good as well. Yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: So. But my mind’s going to. And you’re also a psychologist. And then I’m like, Oh, how much are we allowed to talk about that because of opera. But I mean, you are a psychologist. So you know, what sort of services do you offer? There, let’s touch on that. Briefly, because you know, people listening in May may know somebody that has a need for that, or need somebody themselves. But so what sort of stuff do you do like telehealth or in person, where you are, or
Caitlin Bell: Yeah, so telehealth at the moment. So I’m a clinical psychologist and psychodynamic therapist. So I work at the moment telehealth. So I work with a lot of women, millennial women who are kind of in a phase of their life, where they’re maybe rethinking their like, rethinking their relationships and what they understand to be their relationships. And they’re in a position where they need to. Yeah, find their identity.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. Fantastic.
Caitlin Bell: What I do, one on one at the moment, and potentially doing face to face later in the year to be continued, though
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, and I’ll put all your details in the show notes like I said earlier as well. So what what do you enjoy most about doing both roles
Caitlin Bell: What do I enjoy most about doing both roles? I think the diversity, like just the I know it sounds so cliche. It’s like no week is ever the same. But really it’s just yeah. It’s I don’t think I’ve ever had a week where I’m like, oh, this just feels like. It’s a bit of a drag. I don’t think any week has been a drag since I’ve done both of them. It’s like there’s always something going on, there’s something different, happening like, and also the freedom, the that I have now as well
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: It’s really cool to be able to go overseas and work and travel
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: I think my 16 year old self would be like so excited if I was to tell her that I was doing that
Dr Hayley D Quinn: That’s fantastic. So you’ve really created a business life for yourself. It incorporates these 2 different, very different businesses. That also gives you the freedom to do that from wherever you want to be. I love that. I love that so much. And you you talked about your 16 year old self being kind of like, yeah, go, Caitlin. a question I always ask all my guests is, if you could meet your 80 year old self today, what do you think she would say to you
Caitlin Bell: What would she say? That’s a good question. I think she would say that she was proud of me to to maybe make some like risky choices and do things. Yeah, totally differently and differently from a sense of like, you know. like a family culture doing things that are different and really becoming. I feel like I’m in a place now where I’m like really becoming my true self. I know it sounds a bit cheesy, but like, really, that like an individual. And I feel like that. Yeah, my 80 year old self would be really proud
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. I think she would, too. Yeah, oh, Caitlin, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. So much for coming on the podcast. Can you just let people know where are the best places to find you
Caitlin Bell: Of course, so I hang out a lot on Instagram. That’s probably my main hangout. So I’m at Bell Copy Co. For my copywriting Instagram. I’m also at Cbpsychologist for my psychology, Instagram. And you can always go to my website as well for my copywriting, which is bellcopyco.com or Caitlin Bell, psychologist as well
Dr Hayley D Quinn: And that’s dot com or.com. Yeah.
Caitlin Bell: Dot com yes, all.com yeah
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Oh, fantastic! Thank you so much, Caitlin. I’ll look forward to catching up with you again soon.
Caitlin Bell: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It’s been really fun