Links to Dr Hayley D Quinn Resources
Reclaim Your Time and Energy: 6 Key Boundaries for Women Business Owners
Download here, completely FREE! https://drhayleydquinn.com/resources/
Book now available: https://drhayleydquinn.com/product/book/
Link to podcast mailing list: https://drhayleydquinn.com/podcast/
Group Coaching Waitlist: https://drhayleydquinn.myflodesk.com/timetothrivewaitlist
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drhayleydquinn
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedIn.com/in/dr-hayley-d-quinn-43386533
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drhayleydquinn
Links to Emily Wilkinson
Instagram: @the_flourishing_space
Facebook: @a.flourishing.space
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-w-969219139/
This transcript is computer generated and may contain errors and not be an exact representation of the audio
Hi this is Welcome to Self® and I’m your host, Dr Hayley D Quinn, the anti-burnout business coach. I’m a speaker, author, former clinical psychologist and a late identified auDHDer.
Welcome to Self ® is a podcast for business owners like you who want success but not at the cost of your well-being. This is about transforming self and transforming business. I’ll be here to remind you that you’re human first and as well as being a business owner, you have different roles in your life that need your attention and to manage those well, you need to take care of yourself in the best way possible.
Here you’ll learn about practices that’ll help you navigate not just your business but your non-work life as well and you’ll realise that you’re not alone in the ways you struggle. You’ll have your curiosity piqued on various topics as I chat with wonderful guests and bring you solo bite-sized episodes.
I’m here for service-based business owners and entrepreneurs like you, to help you increase your self-care and compassion, change your relationship with yourself and your business, and elevate your business to a new level so you can live the full and meaningful life you desire.
This is a place of nourishment, growth and helpful information. A place where you can learn ways to assist you and your business to thrive.
We’ll talk all things mindset, strategy and well-being and I’m so excited you’re here. If you haven’t already, go and hit subscribe so you don’t miss an episode.
So, let’s get started
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Hi, and welcome to another episode this week. I have a guest to introduce you to, and I know you’re going to love her. She’s a beautiful, compassionate, and talented human. So let me introduce you. Emily Wilkinson is a psychologist, poet, facilitator, and organisational coach. She’s the founder of flourishing space and president and co-founder of the Shah Gibbs Society, originally from Melbourne. Emily lived in London and New York before returning to Melbourne in 2,018. Emily uniquely combines psychology, compassion, mindfulness, and strength-based work with creativity and poetry. understanding that many people in helping teaching and health professions often feel drained from caring for the needs of others at home and work. Emily created the flourishing way. A transformative 8 week programme for those ready to reclaim their creativity and playfulness, break free from exhaustion and reconnect with themselves. I think we can all relate to that. Emily’s poetry has been featured on Poets Bridge. She’s read at the New York City Poetry Festival very cool. She was a winner of the 2,018 Brooklyn poets, York poem of the year award and received a pushcart prize nomination for her poem in 2,019. I know Emily, and I’ve known her for quite a while and didn’t know those things, so I think we can also say, Emily is also a very humble human being, and it’s my absolute pleasure to welcome emily to the podcast. Hey, emily, thanks, so much for joining me.
Emily Wilkinson: Oh, thanks, Haley, thank you for having me.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: My absolute pleasure. So do you want to start just with a little bit about yourself. how you got into psychology, perhaps, and also what then led you into doing things in a more creative way?
Emily Wilkinson: Yeah, absolutely. So. I actually studied psychology almost straight out of school. In the beginning, my undergraduate degree. I did a year of occupational therapy before that and switched over to psychology. Did my undergraduate degree then, and then did some travel after that. That’s how I, when I wound up living in London and lived there for 7 years. and it wasn’t until I came home again that I took up psychology and creative writing and English literature were kind of all in there, too. So that was part of my studies, and more of a I don’t know. Almost like a side interest. In the meantime, while I was in London, I was working in Hr. And it. It kind of fitted quite well with the psychology training that I’d done. And then, when I returned to Melbourne and started studying psychology again, you know. was really happy to be able to do that, to do that kind of clinical training, and eventually. to cut a long story short, sometime after that, me and my family, we had the opportunity to move to New York. So that’s that’s how that came about. It was actually because of my husband’s work and.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Interestingly, I wasn’t able to practice as a psychologist while I was in New York, so.
Emily Wilkinson: It was an interesting opportunity. I wound up. connecting with an organization called Brooklyn Poets. and it was just incredible, did a lot of poetry workshops, and had an open mic night, which is probably something I wouldn’t have even dreamed of doing before, but something about being there and being part of that community which was such a beautiful, supportive forward, thinking community, such a group of like minded people. that something about that, the magic that led to me. plucking up the courage, I guess, to do the open mic greetings, and one friend over there really encouraged me to try that. so I’m forever grateful to her for that.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Amazing.
Emily Wilkinson: Yeah. So it kind of it almost felt like 2 separate lives. You know, psychology and poetry. And what’s been really lovely in recent years is thinking about ways to bring those things together.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. I think. Gosh, you speak to so much. There, don’t you? I think you know, when we’re outside of our normal environment, it can open us up to doing different things. certainly, for me, leaving the Uk. And moving to Australia, changed my mindset, and what I was willing to engage in and the different things I did, but also that that piece around being supported by people who are encouraging you and supporting you to do things that are perhaps outside your comfort zone is also really important, isn’t it?
Emily Wilkinson: That’s so true. Yeah, that connection. And that community was so powerful for me and that it was focused around poetry was just yeah, just gorgeous.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Oh, that’s lovely! And again, sort of saying that it felt like these 2 separate worlds of psychology and poetry when I was a registered psychologist and working with clients. I actually had some clients who would express themselves through poetry in the work that we did. So I think it’s that you know different ways of using language, isn’t it? And different ways we can express ourselves? But what do you think it is? Because, you know, I’m a part of your flourishing way program which I’m really enjoying. And I know when we introduced ourselves at the beginning, I had sort of said, you know, I never used to think of myself as creative. And over the years I realized I am very creative. I just can’t draw well. and that I heard that come from a lot of the other women in the group as well, that there seems to be this misconception of what creativity is. So what have you experienced with people. What what do you think kind of gets in the way of people either recognizing their creativity or being willing to engage in it?
Emily Wilkinson: Oh, yes, such an interesting question. And there’s so much to it, I think, and a lot of what you’re saying around. Well, I learned at some point, or got a message or told myself that I’m not creative, and it could just be a small thing that happened, or or it could be a big thing like common message that people will say is, oh, I had an art teacher, and they didn’t like my work.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yep.
Emily Wilkinson: Or you know, another kid was so much better than me at drawing. and I felt like I couldn’t do it. That kind of comparison, or just how vulnerable our or how fragile our sense of whether or not we can create, can be.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Emily Wilkinson: Once we internalize that message, how it can kind of carry through. So that decades later, sometimes we still holding on to this belief that. Oh, I can’t possibly draw. I’ve never been able to do it.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, absolutely. I know that was my experience, probably was in my for. Well, yeah, I was in my forties. I remember doing a post on my personal Facebook page around, always thinking I wasn’t creative, and I’d sat down and I’d bought myself some art supplies and I’d done some drawing. But then also acknowledging that, like my husband and I have a building company, and he taught me how to design a house. and I can quite easily now design houses, and it’s like, well, of course, that’s creative. And I designed cabinetry cabinetry for our lounge room, and you know, I sort of I was thinking about it this morning about all the different ways I now see creativity in terms of like doing a food platter. And you know, displaying that in a particular way, or how I have my house decorated and things like that, but also in the work that I do in the creativity and thinking and problem solving as well. So what? What do you kind of? How broad do you see? Creativity? What are some of the things that perhaps people might not think of that. They may actually be really good at. or not even have to be good at, but actually enjoy. But don’t kind of have that label of, Well, I’m creative.
Emily Wilkinson: Yeah, absolutely. And we tend to think of creativity as being painting and drawing. Maybe creative writing. We don’t necessarily think of report writing as creativity we don’t necessarily think of. or as sorry as involving creativity. We don’t necessarily think of problem solving in terms of creativity. And, you know, in work as a coach or a psychologist. So often we’re thinking up creative ways to, you know, approach things to frame things, you know. Some, some therapeutic approaches actually really delve into playful aspects like schema therapy, really kind of, there’s there’s role play, and there’s all sorts of things that we don’t necessarily think of as being creative. We might even have this message of Oh, I’m not creative, and yet do these types of things.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Emily Wilkinson: So interesting, and even, you know our choice of what we might sound quite minor. But our choice of what we put on in the morning like our clothes. There’s kind of. There’s an element of creativity going on there.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, it’s everywhere, isn’t it? And yet so many of us, I think. hold this this story like you say, which could be from very early on in life that we’re not creative. What do you think are the benefits of us embracing creativity? Why is that important? I know, as I mentioned in the introduction that you and myself. Certainly, when I was working as a psychologist, see a lot of people in service based industries in caring industries and professions really kind of neglecting themselves and their own needs, and the the joy and playfulness. Why do you think that’s important?
Emily Wilkinson: Hmm, yeah, absolutely. It’s. It’s such a good question. Because I think there are multiple reasons why it’s important. And you touched on one of them being well, what about me in all of this? In a kind of like acknowledging that we have needs to, even though our jobs, you know whether we’re a health professional or a teacher, or, you know, certain corporate roles, Hr. Being one of them, that perhaps we’re really focused on ensuring that other people’s needs are met, and that’s that can be important and very valuable and very enriching enriching work. And it can be a risk that perhaps will neglect our own needs in all of that.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, absolutely.
Emily Wilkinson: And creativity. I do see, as you know. tapping into our creativity. I see that as a need a human need. And like we were talking about before. It doesn’t have to happen in a very prescriptive way. But it you know, that use of self expression, that use of even. I guess we’ve talked about this a little bit before. But just for the people listening. that idea of well, what is what is my inner essence? And how does that come through in what I do? Even if in, you know, for psychologists we tend to be very much. not not necessarily wanting to put too much, not wanting to insert too much of ourselves into the therapeutic realm. How do I do that? Maybe if it’s at work, how do I do that in small ways, and still remain authentic and and useful in the therapeutic context. And then, more broadly, how do I kind of bring those things into my life.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. I think you make a really good point. There is is, how do I do something small? This, this doesn’t have to be okay, I’m I’m gonna you know. Go out and buy all the supplies and become, you know. Put this pressure on myself to become this great artist. This can be something very small, can’t it? This can be starting with little things that just bring you some joy. I think, for me as well. It can be thinking back. What did you used to enjoy when you were young? What were those things when all the kind of societal rules weren’t so important because you weren’t so aware of them. What were the things we were doing to play? Because often there’s a lot of creativity in that. I have a memory of. I used to draw a little people on the, you know, the inside of a toilet roll. The little cardboard roll had a whole little community of people and.
Emily Wilkinson: No, it can.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: All faces and everything.
Emily Wilkinson: I love that simple.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: My little toilet roll community.
Emily Wilkinson: That is very cool. I love it. Yeah. And it’s kind of this idea like even just recollecting that and how it we were doing those kinds of things for fun, you know, or just for the sake of them. There wasn’t any. This needs to look, you know, things that tend to come in a little bit more as adults for us, those messages of well, this needs to look perfect, or even this needs to look a certain way. When I’m done. all of the our inner critic can really can really get quite carried away when it comes to creative expression. And remembering, you know what it was like when we were a kid, and maybe there was, you know, some criticism at times, but it was often just, you know, if I drew something, and I didn’t like it. I just might not have kept it.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, yeah. absolutely. Gosh, I think that that’s so. Such an important point as well, because I think the inner critic can show up so much in our lives, not only with work, but also our non-work activities. And you know you and I both come from a compassion framework. And I think this is where compassion can have such an important role, can’t it compassion for ourselves, but also receiving that compassion from others, that if we are struggling with this sort of thing, and somebody wants to support us that it’s important. We’re able to welcome that in. And I think, you know, there’s so much talk online about self-compassion, but we often miss the fact that there’s 3 flows of compassion with compassion to others, compassion to ourselves, but also that compassion from others, which I think when you spoke about your story in New York, about your friend, you were nervous. You perhaps were resistant to go and do that. She could see that, and she was there offering you compassion. She saw that struggling and that suffering in you, and was able to do something to help alleviate that. and maybe without that compassion from others, you may not have taken those steps and become an award-winning creative. I might add.
Emily Wilkinson: Yes, so right. And about that the role of compassion. And I know you and I have talked about this before, but that when I, as I’ve delved into compassion, focused therapy and the tenets of that and the the teachings of that. It’s been absolutely huge in my world. And you’re so right. That process would not have happened, you know, without her compassion at that time, and she did it so beautifully as well. You know. She just did it very lightly, which was so so helpful at the time. She’s kind of encouraged me with a with a lighthearted, playful kind of approach. which, in fact, I think, is really helpful when it comes to creativity that we we can, that we try to. We can try and hold things a little bit lightly. That can help, I think, with the inner critic as well and with with our, you know often our desire for perfection, whatever that might mean for us.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. So what are some of the ways that you incorporate creativity into your life into your day? Because I’m assuming you. You aren’t of the thought that you know creativity is for another time. Now you’re doing this. Creativity is for over here. I always say it’s those things that we do throughout the day. The little breaks we take the moments of checking in with ourselves the soothing breaths that we do during the day, that all help towards burnout prevention, which obviously is my passion area, and I’m imagining you would have a similar thought around incorporating creativity. So how do you incorporate it into your day and into your life.
Emily Wilkinson: Yeah, I think there are lots of ways, I guess, in a in a more kind of thinking about the more structured part of it. It’s probably for me around poetry, so I will have certain times that I I try and write. and again I try and do that with that real it. It doesn’t always work out this way this way. So I kind of give you the wrong idea. But my idea is to create things with a certain lightness. Yeah. but there are other times when something, I guess, comes to me like an idea or a line, and it could be at a very random moment, and I’ll just need to stop what I’m doing if I can, and write that down, it’ll feel like it’ll feel like it’s coming from somewhere else, like an idea, will just kind of spark. And if I have this sense, and I don’t know how true it is. But I have this sense that if I don’t write it down it’ll kind of disappear. So I yeah, if that’s the case, then I’ll kind of try and jump on it straight away. But I think kind of related to what you’re asking, too. I think there are so many things that help with that process, and one of them is being in nature, not saying it’s the same for everyone, but certainly for me. Being in nature brings out a certain part in my in my makeup. leans into that more creative side.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. Nice. Are there any kind of things that people could be doing, perhaps during their workday that you know? Perhaps they can’t get out into nature or don’t don’t have large amounts of time that are just like little things that they could do.
Emily Wilkinson: Yes.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Be helpful.
Emily Wilkinson: Oh, I love that question. Yes, absolutely so. There’s, I think. a few. There are lots and lots of different things. So one thing could be, you know, even between meetings or between clients. If clients is, if you if you have what you do with clients, then doodling sounds simple. But actually, there’s a lot of research on how how much benefit we can get from regular doodling practice. So just, you know, scribbling with a pen or a pencil. Even coloring. So that use of different colors. There is a creative aspect to that. That’s kind of, you know, which colors we choose, and there’s also there can be a mindful aspect to it as well.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Emily Wilkinson: In that very kind of can put us in that reflective state which is, which can be a powerful It can have a powerful effect on things like wellbeing and burnout prevention. as well as that. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the creation of artworks or writing or sculpture, or, of course, there are lots of different creative pursuits. It can also be enjoying other people’s work. So maybe there’s a poem that you love reading or a poet. and you might choose a couple of poems that you read every now and again. Maybe there’s artworks you love looking at. Maybe there’s yeah. There are lots of different things you can do that can be not very time consuming.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, I love that. I’m I’m a lover of art and and love supporting like local artists. and we’ll often just stand and look at some of the art that I’ve got, and it does bring me so much joy, but I find it very soothing as well. There’s something very calming for me. I guess, maybe depending on the art. Some of my art is more playful, but some of it feels really, really soothing. So that’s great to hear that it doesn’t have to be me creating the art. It can be me actually enjoying my slight obsession with it.
Emily Wilkinson: Yeah, absolutely. Wow. And the way you’re doing it as well, that does sound really, yeah, really.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. so you you are. You have many roles in your life, you we mentioned in the introduction that you are the founder, the President and Co. Founder of the Shah Banks.
Emily Wilkinson: That gives society.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Gibbs society sorry, and you have a daughter with a disability and another child. You’re married, you run a psychology business. You have a creative business as well. How do you take care of yourself whilst you’re taking care of your family with all the different needs there. and generally kind of doing all the things you need to do. What what do you do to take care of Emily?
Emily Wilkinson: Yeah, I think compassion comes compassion focused. Therapy techniques are huge for me, and I do apply them to myself where I can not to say that I do that all the time. I often forget, but there’s certainly that intention there. And creativity, certainly, I think, has given me so much But also, I think, part of the reason for starting this newer business. The flourish space business is that not only did I want to combine some of the things that I’m passionate about psychology and poetry and creativity. I also wanted to create something that felt inspiring. That feels, you know, I guess, has a different feeling than my clinic work clinical work. which my clinical work I also love and get so much out of, and feel very privileged to be a clinical psychologist, and at the same time it can be pretty intense work, as you know.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, yeah.
Emily Wilkinson: Having that kind of combination of also doing this beautiful kind of lighter, more playful work has been pretty life changing for me.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. I think that’s so important for so many people, whether it’s kind of heavy clinical work or a heavy workload or working in an environment that is stressful because of perhaps the structure of the environment, the management structure, or whatever it might be. I think you know, when we we put a lot of our identity, or there can be the risk that we put a lot of our identity onto what we do for work. And I think when we start to have all these other things in our life as well, and we can see that we’re not just one thing. We are human first, st and we choose the different work roles, and we choose whether we want to be married or different things like that. And that all aspects of ourself need taken care of. Then we’re more likely to seek out the things that are helpful to do that, aren’t we?
Emily Wilkinson: Absolutely. And you know what with what you were saying around, how many different roles we may have, including our roles outside of work. you know. so many of its particularly women are the caring roles. So that’s you know, whether they’ve become parents or whether their own parents are aging. Or you know, different people in their lives that they may support, can actually be huge.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. So if you could factor, if you you know, if you if you’re caring for children, or pets, or partners, or aging parents, or whoever it might be, or in a, in a caring role in your work. And if you could add in a couple of times a week, or even starting with once a week, where you actually took some time for yourself and did something that felt creative, felt aligned with who you are that can really start to make a difference, can’t it.
Emily Wilkinson: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And it, there’s something in what you said that just like really gave me goosebumps. And I think it’s that idea of like I’m and I’m hearing this message from people doing the program. The the flourishing way program that I’m running is this is for me. I’m doing this for me. I’m not doing this to create an incredible piece of artwork. I’m doing this as something that is focused on what what I need.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. it’s lovely to hear that, isn’t it? And, like you say, particularly from women, I think we we’ve been socialized from a very, very young age to be of service to others often speak about. You know you think about the toys that little girls are given a doll with a nappy and a bottle.
Emily Wilkinson: A little.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Little kitchen with pots and pans and a tea set to go serve people cups of tea. So this is this is really ingrained, and this isn’t our fault. This is the socialization that we’ve had. But it’s important that we start to really look and think. Well, hang on. Is this actually what I want to be doing does this align with who I am and what I want for my life? And even if I am somebody that wants to serve and care for others which I know you are, and I certainly am. That can’t be all that I am, and all that I do has to be space for me. And in my own personal experience and in the work I do with people, we have to get to know ourselves. So we can know what it is that we want to do. And some of that can be through experimentation, right? It’s like, or maybe like, when we think about it from this creativity perspective. Maybe I will try drawing and see if I like it. Maybe I’ll try painting and see if I like it. Maybe I’ll try writing poetry and see if I like it. Maybe I’ll try dancing and see if I like it. It’s that sort of stuff, isn’t it? Of like you might not even know. because perhaps you got early messaging of well, you’re not creative, so don’t bother. Or perhaps you grew up in a family that didn’t respect the arts.
Emily Wilkinson: And let’s face it. We live in a capitalist society that doesn’t really respect the arts.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: So it’s almost a rebellion as well, isn’t it, to take time to be creative.
Emily Wilkinson: I think so. And and it’s interesting because I think there are some paradox, is there as well that. you know, being creative also isn’t necessarily an easy path. It’s not you know. It can be really tough, and it can be hard to sit with the discomfort of. For example, not knowing how something’s going to pan out. You know I’m starting to write a poem. I don’t know what it’s going to be like. I keep, you know I’m kind of having to push through that, or maybe not push through, maybe reassure myself. Maybe some self soothing messages that.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Emily Wilkinson: That this part of it is hard. and I think another kind of paradox around it is. It’s something that I’m doing for myself and yet creating beautiful things in the world, or meaningful things in the world, is a very generous act. It’s not a it’s not, you know. I think there’s some myths around being an artist that are kind of along the lines of oh, it’s self indulgent, or it’s selfish, or it’s I don’t know self aggrandizing even.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Gosh! And yeah, I’ll often say this, imagine a world with no art and no music like Oh.
Emily Wilkinson: Right, exactly.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I mean.
Emily Wilkinson: How could that be human.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Exactly. It’s I will often comment to artists, you know. Thank you for sharing your work, because it it just brings for me personally, it brings me so much joy I love, I love art. and I guess part of me has this desire of like oh, wouldn’t it be wonderful to be able to paint so beautifully. I’m very privileged to have a wonderful view, and sometimes the sunsets are spectacular, and I can see it in my mind’s eye. and I can look at it, and I can see all the colors, and it’s almost like I think I have an artist’s eye, but I don’t have an artist’s hand, because when I try to translate it, it’s just it just doesn’t work.
Emily Wilkinson: And then I was having this conversation with with someone else the other day actually that we we forget, I think sometimes when we try, and I don’t know. Draw or paint, and we haven’t done it for a long time, or it’s just not something we do. All the time we have these expectations that we could be able to create it, exactly how we, how our mind sees it. And it’s really not fair on ourselves.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: No very unrealistic.
Emily Wilkinson: Yeah, I I mean, the the world’s greatest artists struggle with that with, you know it, not necessarily looking exactly how they imagined at times. And yeah, here we are. I, you know, may not have picked up a paintbrush for 15 years, and I have this expectation, even though I never did paint in the way that met my expectation. I haven’t the expectation still sitting there, that oh, this is going to look exactly as as I see it like as it looks out the window. It’s not something I practice.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. And I know for me as much as part of me would love to be really good at that. I know that it’s not something that I want to spend time.
Emily Wilkinson: What?
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Doing the practice. I would rather appreciate other people’s art.
Emily Wilkinson: Exactly. And that’s that’s so beautiful like, that’s that intentional.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Emily Wilkinson: No, it’s not because I don’t have the capacity to do that. It’s not because I am incapable of learning how to do that. It’s because I’ve made different choices prioritized. That doesn’t mean I can’t dabble.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. Yeah. And I think this links well to business as well, isn’t it, that when we’re either starting off completely, if you if you’re a startup business, or if you’ve been in business, and you’re perhaps evolving into something new, or you just come up with a new idea that you want to try. And you sort of talked about that having these new ideas and and writing them down is remembering to bring that compassion piece, because when it is new. Can we have that beginner’s mind? Get curious about what’s happening. Lower the expectations on ourselves, and I know I can struggle with that. I know I have very high expectations on myself, and to the point that I never used to try to do things, because if I wasn’t going to do it really well, 1st time I was not interested. And now I look and think, well, that’s so unrealistic and so unfair on myself. But now it’s it’s lowering those expectations of. Okay, this, this is going to take some time to learn. This is going to take some practice. This is going to be about making mistakes, seeing why it didn’t work trying it a different way. And I think that can go. For whether that’s creative or if that’s us in business. and that compassion piece is so important like, go gently with yourself, and give yourself some grace and space and time to learn the new things. to experiment with what you want to do, and and what you don’t like. I say I would love to be able to paint really well, but I don’t want to spend time doing the hours it would take to learn to be a good painter. I’m not interested enough in that. I’d rather go and go to an art gallery, or go to go to an art exhibition and enjoy somebody else’s art, and then buy somebody else’s art and support them.
Emily Wilkinson: Absolutely, and that you’re dappling as well.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Emily Wilkinson: You’re not letting that get in the way of you trying things. So drawing and and creative writing. Well, I guess writing is, you know, actually a big part of your world.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, yeah, I love that. And when I look back I realize that has been a big part of my world since I was very little. and then I lost touch with it for a while. and now it’s become a part of my not just my work. It’s become part of my work and my broader life, because, like you, I’ll have stuff just come, and I either voice note it or quickly write it down, or something. So I think is again is, you know, for people listening, thinking about what used to be in your life that’s now missing, that you can bring back and experiment with it again, and maybe maybe you won’t enjoy it anymore. But maybe you will. Maybe you’ll reconnect with a part of you that is long forgotten as well.
Emily Wilkinson: Yes, absolutely that real, that real kind of feeling, of reclaiming something.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Emily Wilkinson: We do. We tend to leave certain parts of ourselves, kind of just untapped.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, so what was it that kind of you wanted to kind of combine your psychology and you mentioned poetry. But I think the flourishing way isn’t just about poetry, is it? I mean, this is this is a broader kind of program. What was it that brought that to life? Now, do you think.
Emily Wilkinson: Yeah, I think I guess I’ve been back in Australia, you know, with my family since 2,018. Doing my clinical work and doing all the the life things. and just had this long, long term sense that things felt very separate. And that’s okay. That can be okay. But I guess what started to develop was a sense that I really want to bring some things together. And and I have some concerns about the way in the health industry. So many people, and I know you certainly share this concern, not just in the health industry, but more broadly, but that so many people burn out or experience things like compassion, fatigue? And I guess really started thinking deeply about some of the reasons behind that. And, you know, coming from a very similar framework with compassion focused therapy. That’s been a big part of what has been powerful for helping me through those types of challenges. I also think that there are some real real kind of systemic problems that exist in the healthcare industry and in in various other industries as well. Around us feeling like we have to be everything to everyone, but not being able to bring ourselves into the picture.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: No.
Emily Wilkinson: And that kind of, you know, bit abstract what I’m saying. But it kind of connected for me a lot with, okay, well, maybe that’s part of the reason why I felt like I’ve had to keep my creative life and my psychology work so separate and my personal life. And and you know, of course, there are still things that I would want to continue to keep or separate, or whatever. and, you know may not be appropriate, things to like raise in the therapy room. But how do we? How do we bring more of ourselves into our work? Has been a big.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. I love that. I love that so much. It’s like, it’s that human to human contact, isn’t it? In whatever type of work you’re doing. Obviously, there’s different kind of boundaries and guidelines. If you’re a registered health professional. But I think that human to human contact. And again, once we know ourselves, we can make choices around. This is the part of me I want to bring to this part of my life. This is the part of me that actually is private and only shared amongst a certain group of people, or maybe just with myself. I think that’s so important. And I think when you know, programs like this, that it’s like permission giving, I think.
Emily Wilkinson: Hmm, yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: It’s like these kind of programs like the one you’re running are giving people permission to do things a different way to honour themselves, to step up and say, actually, I matter as well. And I’m going to take something for myself and be okay with that. And I know that can be a real challenge. And I know in the work I do with people. And in my time to thrive program. We talk a lot about this because I think, and again, particularly for women. A lot of guilt and shame can show up when we start to think about doing these things for ourselves. but as well. The more you do it, and the more you practice doing it, the easier that becomes. So I love that you’ve got this available for people.
Emily Wilkinson: Yeah, yeah, that’s 1 of the huge. I love the way you put that permission giving. And that’s 1 of the huge elements, I think or components of of the program that it’s okay. It’s okay to be you. It’s okay to express. You know, certain parts of yourself that you may not have tapped into for years or.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Emily Wilkinson: Then. And that can be a really powerful message. And it’s okay to do this program, even though it’s not, you know. like a Cpd or sorry. Some kind of professional development that provides you with a certification to practice Xyz therapy. It’s okay to do this like this is true.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: And we touched on that before. Right in the capitalist society, we’re taught that we need to be productive. It’s got to be worthwhile and purposeful. And I think we need to reframe. Well, what does worthwhile and purposeful mean? It doesn’t just mean for profit. It can mean for health and vitality. It can mean that our life has joy. It can mean that we are connecting with parts of ourselves that allow us to live a fuller life. But that’s not the messaging we’ve had. So again, this is not our fault. When we shy away from these sort of things, or we feel guilty. and I hear myself saying to people so often, guilt is a really appropriate emotion. If you’ve done something wrong. choosing yourself, taking care of your needs, deciding to sit down and draw a picture or write a poem. You have done nothing wrong. There is no need to feel guilty, and yet it seems to be this default, that if I’m not being productive, if I’m not making money or doing something to take care of somebody else, so they can be making money, then I’m not purposeful or worthwhile, and I just think we we have to change this. It’s toxic. It’s awful.
Emily Wilkinson: Yeah, absolutely. It’s so toxic. And it’s interesting because artists experience similar messaging, even full-time artists will talk about get-ting these messages around. Okay, I realize you’re an artist. But how do you earn your money like, what’s your site? What’s your main job?
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I can. Okay. Oh, my gosh. my gosh! So you’re you’re here to to help change that and let people know that. Actually, you can just do this because you want to. Yes, and that it’s gonna have so many benefits you talked about, you know benefits to well-being and and in your program. You talk more to some of the things that are beneficial in taking time for this. And I just love that you’re offering us into the world, and you’re so the person to do it, I mean, you are so passionate about creativity. You’re such a creative person, but you’re also such a beautiful, compassionate human being. and you hold space so beautifully for people. So I’m glad it’s out there, and I’m glad it’s you that’s doing it. So I’d love to ask you the question that I ask all my guests. and I’m always curious about what people say on this one is, if you had the opportunity to meet your 80 year old self today. What do you think she would say to you?
Emily Wilkinson: I have a sense that she would say to me, Keep going as in I guess it’s it’s taken a lot to get to this point of clarity almost, that this is this is really important for me to do, and not to not to kind of give up on that.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Absolutely because that can be hard, can’t it? When you, when you’re embarking on something new, something different, and perhaps something that does feel a level of discomfort in how it blends with the other work that you do. it can be easy to be like, oh, maybe I shouldn’t be doing it. Or maybe maybe it’s too hard, or you know, maybe it’s not right. And and I think it’s that that time of uncertainty which, as humans we don’t like. We have a brain that likes certainty. So there and I and I hope you can keep connecting with her and checking in with her so she can remind you when it feels tricky. But Just keep going. However that looks, and however small that might be, whatever that next small step might be, and for anybody listening as well those moments of just connecting with your future self whether that’s self in 5 years, 10 years, 40 years, whatever it might be. what would your future self want you to be doing? Emily? It’s been such a pleasure having you on the podcast thank you so much. if people want to find out more about you, which I’m sure they will. Where is the best place for them to connect with you, and I will make sure everything is also in the show notes.
Emily Wilkinson: Oh, thank you, Haley. Yes, so I have relatively New Instagram and Facebook accounts under the flourishing space name. So I’ll give you the actual handles for those. And I guess Linkedin is another one. I am in the process of having my website set up. So that will be that’s upcoming.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Fantastic, that’s exciting. And how do people find you in Linkedin? Are you under your name, or.
Emily Wilkinson: It’s just under Emily Wilkinson. I can give you the link for that as well.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Brilliant, lovely thanks again for coming on. It’s been an absolute pleasure.
Emily Wilkinson: Thank you so much. Hayley.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: And thank you to all of you for listening in again for another episode. I’m sure you would have got a lot out of this and go check Emily out. If you did enjoy this episode, please share it with somebody else, and I look forward to connecting with you again next week. Go well and go gently with yourself.