Links to Dr Hayley D Quinn Resources
Reclaim Your Time and Energy: 6 Key Boundaries for Women Business Owners
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Book now available: https://drhayleydquinn.com/product/book/
Link to podcast mailing list: https://drhayleydquinn.com/podcast/
Group Coaching Waitlist: https://drhayleydquinn.myflodesk.com/timetothrivewaitlist
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedIn.com/in/dr-hayley-d-quinn-43386533
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Links to Catherine Ashton Resources
https://www.instagram.com/critical_info_org/
This transcript is computer generated and may contain errors and not be an exact representation of the audio
Hi this is Welcome to Self® and I’m your host, Dr Hayley D Quinn, the anti-burnout business coach. I’m a speaker, author, former clinical psychologist and a late identified auDHDer.
Welcome to Self ® is a podcast for business owners like you who want success but not at the cost of your well-being. This is about transforming self and transforming business. I’ll be here to remind you that you’re human first and as well as being a business owner, you have different roles in your life that need your attention and to manage those well, you need to take care of yourself in the best way possible.
Here you’ll learn about practices that’ll help you navigate not just your business but your non-work life as well and you’ll realise that you’re not alone in the ways you struggle. You’ll have your curiosity piqued on various topics as I chat with wonderful guests and bring you solo bite-sized episodes.
I’m here for service-based business owners and entrepreneurs like you, to help you increase your self-care and compassion, change your relationship with yourself and your business, and elevate your business to a new level so you can live the full and meaningful life you desire.
This is a place of nourishment, growth and helpful information. A place where you can learn ways to assist you and your business to thrive.
We’ll talk all things mindset, strategy and well-being and I’m so excited you’re here. If you haven’t already, go and hit subscribe so you don’t miss an episode.
So, let’s get started
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Just have a little sip of water first. Hi, and welcome to another episode this week I have another guest I’m chatting with, and this is a topic we don’t tend to have many conversations about yet it’s one that ultimately impacts us all, and what my guest has to share could really help you, your family and your business. Let me introduce you to Catherine Ashton. Catherine is the dynamic force behind critical info, a platform dedicated to end of life, planning and awareness through a serious car accident in 2019, and the unexpected death of a dear friend in 2023. The importance of end of life, planning fueled Catherine’s determination to create a secure and informative platform to empower people in making informed decisions. Catherine is an award-winning speaker and Mc. And has worked with companies such as Pricewaterhouse, Cooper’s Eldercare Network and Griefline.
Catherine has also appeared in numerous publications and news platforms, including Sbs, world News. Catherine is dedicated to breaking the silence around death and providing the tools and knowledge necessary for comprehensive end of life planning through her platform, critical info and her podcast don’t be caught dead. Catherine continues to support and empower individuals facing the realities of mortality. I know you’re going to have some really helpful takeaways from this episode, and it’s my absolute pleasure to welcome Catherine to the podcast so welcome. Catherine. Thank you. So much for coming on.
Catherine Ashton: Thanks for having me. Dr. Hayley.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: So do you want to start by telling us a bit about your background? And really, how you came to start the platform and the podcast.
Catherine Ashton: Yeah, look, I think you’ve given a bit of insight that there was 2 significant events that happened that have really sort of formed the path with what I’m doing now, and that was the firstly, the car accident that I had in 2019. I was on my way to work. I worked as a producer of major events at the Royal Botanic Gardens. Victoria and I got hit from behind, and that ended in me having spinal surgery and developing chronic pain as a result, and as you well know, chronic pain and stress and event management, are not friends. So that resulted in me having to leave that job. So I was at a bit of a loss, and I really didn’t know what I was going to do, and I just finished a 16 week pain management course in 2022 at the Victorian Rehab centre, and I knew whatever I was going to do was going to have to be aligned with my values. But I really didn’t know what that was going to be. So I was, yeah, I was. I was really at at a stage that, you know, being in my early forties. You know. What do you do? I? I thought like, I’m not really qualified for anything else but event management. but in hindsight it was really a good opportunity, because what that meant when our friend unexpectedly died in February of 2023, his 2 adult children were residing in the States.
That’s the way they live, and I thought I’d put some information together with for them for them to come over here to Australia, and I just couldn’t find the information that I needed to provide to them. And thankfully, I did actually have that time off, because it took us sort of 6 intense weeks of of managing his estate and closing as much as we possibly could of his affairs while I were here, and that’s not something you can do when you’re working full time. So it was just weird how you know life kind of dealt the cards it did, and that was the situation I found myself in.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. Yeah. And that really highlighted for you the problem that when something like this happens, there isn’t information available for people. And it’s a really hard time. You and I spoke on your podcast and I, I think I spoke on on that episode around, having worked with people as when I was a psychologist. and this is a time when there’s so much practical aspects of what needs to be done. And yet the grief process makes that so hard, so can you tell us a little bit about critical info the platform, and what that does? Why and why, that’s important.
Catherine Ashton: Yeah, look. And you’re so right with the impact that grief has. And and it’s kind of like that that moment that you’re really in that whole you’ve had, especially if it’s an unexpected death. Such it was with our friend, and so we had to step in and become custodians of his apartment and all of his belongings, while we waited for his children to arrive. And so I started Googling. thinking that there would be something to guide me through the process, and what I found is that everyone was very good at telling their part of the story, but there was nothing to sort of. Hold your hand all the way through the process. And that’s what I found really confusing. So what I did being the good producer at that point in time I started an Excel spreadsheet, which is, you know, basically a to do list. And I just worked through with the kids and documented everything that we had to do to get things finalized.
And then it was sort of at the end of that 6 week process that I thought, well, maybe I’m not the only one that’s in this situation. So I had attended a Death Care conference that the Melbourne University of Melbourne had put on the year before. when I was considering becoming a funeral celebrant, you know, not the average choice that you’d think of a job. But my aunt had been a funeral celebrant, and she had said to me it was the most rewarding job that she’d ever done. So I thought, Okay, well, I’ll go to this Death care conference and see what the industry is about, and so I found it fascinating, but realized that the grief would be too triggering to manage my chronic pain as well.
It would just be not the right thing for me. So I sort of parked that idea. But what I did is when I had this excel spreadsheet, and I wanted to see whether there was a market for it. I actually reached out to those people that I admit at that death care conference and said, look, is there anything available at the moment? You know, with what I’m looking at planning to do? And so it’s just sort of snowballed from there. So the people that I spoke to and and I think we’ve we’ve discussed this previously is the fact that everyone has a personal story of someone who either they have a loved one that was close to them, or they know someone who has died and had to really manage that process. And anyone who’s done that will relate that there’s just such an overwhelming list of tasks to do. And so what I found is that the stories that were being told to me, were too too important not to share with others.
And that’s where the podcast came about. So in February of 2024, I launched the podcast don’t be caught dead, which you mentioned that you’ve been a guest on. So it’s either people with lived experience or people like yourself, who are experts within the industry that can provide some insight to those people that are grieving, or have loved ones that have gone through it. And then I also really just put all of the information together. So I think there’s over 300 organizations. Now that we have on our website. So what that means is that someone can go there to the one spot and look at any point in stage where they’re at. So whether it’s end of life, planning, death, care, or bereavement, and they can connect with an organization that’s either an industry association so they can find someone in their local area to support them or a reputable bereavement organization depending on what area they need support in.
So whether it’s something like grief line, there’s a 24 h hotline service where you can get support, or whether it’s something more specialised that you need support in, whether that’s actually children that have lost a parent or.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Parent that’s actually lost a child through suicide. You can connect with all of those specialist services under the one website. So yeah. such a fantastic platform, and I think you speak to something there as well is. You had gone to people. but then there was nobody. That kind of was the the thread through it all. and we don’t know what we don’t know, so you can’t know that you’ve got to contact certain people. If you don’t know that you’ve got to contact them right? So I guess what you’ve done is really do the background work for people to say these are actually all the different domains that you may need to be in connection with, and we can kind of help you, because we’ve got them all in one spot.
Catherine Ashton: You’re so you’re so right with what you’re saying is is the fact that you know generally people are grieving. You don’t know what you don’t know. And and that became really apparent. So what I did after I’d spoken to these people within the industry. And I had the podcast I had the the website. What? What had been the real motivation for that was that I had sort of taken this excel spreadsheet that I had and developed a prototype at the end of sort of 2023. And what I found when I started running focus groups using this prototype is that I had something that people could document their choices.
But the problem was is that people didn’t even know what their choices were. So you know, it’s that classic gap. And that’s the reason why I started the podcast as well is because it’s that way for people to learn from other people, from lived experience or experts what they don’t know. And there’s so many advancements in different technological options when it comes to, you know, there’s not just, you know. burial or cremation any longer. There’s cryopreservation. So that’s cryonics that’s on offer. If you would like to actually, you know, freeze your body until another stage where science can unfreeze it or there’s, you know, things like water cremation.
Now that is, in Tasmania and available and people are just not aware of this. So the podcast allows people to learn about that. And then also, what we found is that through one of those focus groups a girlfriend of mine literally said to me, I would have no idea what to do if someone died tomorrow. And so I just sat down and did the same process that I had sort of done with, you know, gathering all the information for the website which just went, okay, well, what’s out there? And what do you need to do in chronological steps? So we cover. I’ve written a guide that is called my loved ones died. What do I do now? Very evident of what it helps you through, and it covers the 1st 24 h right through to the next few days and months that you’ll need to go through, and it’s a very pragmatic guide of what the steps you need to do to complete and what organizations that you can connect with. So that guide is available on the website.
It’s in a downloadable format. It’s also can come in a printed format as well, and that also has a checklist. So as you were talking about with the way our brain works after grief is that you? Really, it’s adult, you know. And you’re not in the state of mind to make decisions. So this allows you to actually just go through a checklist and and work through those steps that you need to do so.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: I think it’s fantastic, because, like you say, when people are grieving, your mind is not working the way it would be if you weren’t grieving. and the planning and execution of all that would be so much harder, even if you knew where to start, which, like you say, many people don’t, because, you know, certainly in Western culture we don’t talk about death. You and I spoke about this when we spoke before. we just don’t. And I think that’s really problematic, because whilst it might feel comfortable to avoid these conversations now, and I do hope, when people heard what this episode was about, you are still with us, and you are still listening, because I’m sure there would have been some people that decided to hit stop and not listen, because it can feel really confronting. And whilst that can feel really comfortable in the now that we avoid thinking about our mortality or that of those we love, it’s not helpful in the long run, is it?
Because then we’re left having to navigate and deal with this when we’re in a position of such emotional distress that it’s really really hard to do it. So I think for you. Having set this up, it’s almost like you take the emotion out of it. and you do the pragmatic work you do the checklist you you put together. Here’s all the people you might need to contact, which makes it so much easier for people to access when they do need to do that, or to have somebody who perhaps is a step removed from the grief they may still be grieving, but perhaps it’s not as raw for them that could then help their friend, or loved one with the process that they need to go through. So I think what you what you’ve done is fantastic.
Catherine Ashton: Oh, thank you, Haley, and for me, look, I’ve always anyone who knows me knows that I’m a very practical person, and so probably doesn’t come as a surprise to them that this is something that I’ve done, because I was just so surprised that there wasn’t something out there to take us through that that chronological order. But what was interesting is that I mentioned the guide, and and as a sort of value added service that I offer for that is that anyone who purchases the guide there’s Monthly Q, and as that they can meet with me online in a group format, and we just chat through any challenges that they’re having and making sure that we’re referring them to the right experts within the industry.
And so what was really fascinating is that last year one of the people who had purchased the guide came to one of these sessions, and she had had an absolute fear of death, and we know that it is a known condition, that there is death, anxiety. And what was interesting is that she had been listening to the podcast, and she had gone through an experience where she’d gone from having this fear of death to now literally completely transformed.
And she was becoming a death, Doula, and for those of you who don’t know what a death Doula is a death. Doula is someone who is providing non-medical support to a person with who’s been diagnosed with a life limiting illness in, you know, sometimes their darkest days, and also supporting their as well. And that is really tough work, and something that I certainly couldn’t do. And yet she’s gone from having this anxiety to now completely the other end of the spectrum. So you know, it is interesting how people once they become more educated about a topic, they realise that look, it is inevitable, and if we can sort of prevent the anxiety and the stress and the complex grief by getting our paperwork sorted early and making sure our loved ones have that critical information. Now, that’s the best way to do it, because, you know, for us, you know, when our friend died we didn’t know what his wishes were. and I would never want any family, member or or close friend, to go through that experience where you don’t know what those wishes are.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, because it becomes really difficult, doesn’t it? Because then there’s all that personal anxiety then around, am I doing the right thing by that person. Would this be what they wanted? And it it compounds the grief, doesn’t it? Like the suffering becomes amplified because of the things that we’re unsure of. So you have services for people who are actually in the throes of grief. Somebody has died, but also in that planning stage of Let’s think about what’s needed. And I guess in terms of this, podcast a lot of the listeners are business owners. And I know, I spoke to you about this about how important that can be.
As a former psychologist, as a psychologist, we had to have like a living will for your business, so that you would have somebody that was your contact person. If you died, they knew what was needed for your clients, etc. And what to do with your files and everything. But I don’t think, and I think a lot of people didn’t do that, even though it’s probably it’s a requirement. I think people still avoid that sort of thing. But I think there’s a lot of businesses where that wouldn’t even be a consideration. Obviously the sensitive nature of being a psychologist or some kind of health professional, that’s told to you.
But for many business owners you probably aren’t sitting there thinking. I need to think about my profit and loss. And also I need to think about if I died next week. I mean, we just. We don’t tend to think like this right. But if you were to die, somebody has to deal with your business, and and what’s left. So what would you say to people who are running businesses about? Why, this is important, and what can they do like, you know, in terms of what you have to offer, or what they could be doing for themselves, to sort of plan for that.
Catherine Ashton: Yeah, look, it’s interesting. Because, you know, we can use the classic example of of you know recently how we saw people’s holiday plans and lives completely turned upside down because of the cyclone. You know, Cyclone Alfred, when that hit Queensland, you know, and that’s only only recently in the last few months, and and you know, with me, with my personal experience, I was just driving to work like any normal day, and ended up having a car accident. So life is unpredictable. And so we can have, you know. we can avoid these things. But the problem is is that as a business owner.
You have a responsibility to your clients, and if you run a company, your shareholders, your board, those sorts of obligations, both from A, you know, duty of care, perspective. But also it’s a legal requirement, you know. So you have to have, and and what what they sort of generally refer to it as a business continuity plan. And so that is basically what happens if I end up in hospital, what happens if I’m stuck overseas? What happens if you know my phone dies and no one can contact me. What is the steps in place that need to happen? And and how do people know about that what needs to happen? And how do they they access the information that they need to make those decisions? And who’s going to be making those decisions? If I’m not here to make them. And I it can be as simple as really have. If you’re a co-founder. If you’ve got a business partner, it can be as simple as just actually, you know, having a voice memo meeting or recording a Zoom Meeting where you actually have this discussion. So at least it’s some sort of to do list or some sort of process where you’ve had the discussion. It’s documented, and so one can refer back to it later, if need be.
But ideally, best practice would be really writing a proper business continuity plan. You can get those business continuity plans off the you know, business Victoria website in Victoria. I am. I know that they’ve got them there. If you have a financial advisor, speak to them. If you have an accountant or a lawyer speak to them. They can provide you with the formal documents that you all framework that you need to think about. But you know at the very least have a conversation, you know. Because you just never know it doesn’t have to be death. It can be.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Catherine Ashton: Just, you know, a cyclone who knows?
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, live? I don’t know if you can hear this. This is becoming a running theme in my podcast. Now of the people in the building, deciding to do renovation work whilst I’m recording an episode. So I’m not sure if you can. I’m hoping my microphone is limiting that as much as possible. But there you go. As we say, we can’t control what happens in life.
Catherine Ashton: The classic example, isn’t it? So there’s life timing perfectly. Thank you very much. One of the things that you because you recently launched the the, podcast, not the podcast, sorry, the the platform. At the time of recording this, it was very recent. This will air in a few months.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: And one of the things is you have a service where people can come and kind of input information. Can you tell? Tell us a little bit more about. I read a little bit about it in my email that I got. But can you tell us a little bit more about that? How we can access that, and and what that process is like, what sort of information would be on there.
Catherine Ashton: Yeah, sure. So it’s called the critical info platform. So it really is. The the live version of what I referred to earlier is that excel spreadsheet. So it really is. It’s it’s gone through many iterations gone through, I think, 4 focus groups before we have now gone live and what it is. It’s just a really simple system that you spend 10 min a day. It’s an online platform. So you log on to it. You register via that via the website, criticalinfo.com.au, and it’s a membership service. So it’s an annual fee of $99 or a monthly fee of $10, and what that provides you with is a simple system system to follow, where, as I mentioned, it’s 10 min a day for 15 days.
And over that 15 days we we focus on, you know, different focus areas of your life. So whether it be your pets, whether it be your assets or finances. We actually ask you questions. That sort of take you through the documents that you need to collect. And also we take you through the process of thinking about. Who are the 2 people that you trust that if you are in hospital you would like them to be the 1st people to enter your home. They are the ones that actually have access to your account. You decide when they have access. So you nominate these 2 key contacts. They go through the process of accepting that process of being a key contact. and then you nominate when they have access. So it’s when you create the account. When you’re hospitalized or when you die, and then they have a a process that they contact us, they request access. And should you you not respond.
Within 1 h they will have automatic access, as you’ve actually deemed that appropriate for them. So what that allows you to do is to know that you’ve been taken through a guided process covering every aspect of your life, including your business. We focus on all of the things that we’ve just discussed in relation to being a business owner, and also your responsibilities of shareholders, abns how many domain names you have. how many email addresses like all of these things that I think. Oh, my goodness, I have so many ridiculous domain names like I’m the only one that knew them until this process. And now it’s documented, you know. So all of those things that you you have to document. But the thing that’s very different about the platform is that we don’t encourage people to upload their information. I think that there’s 1 item that we, we ask them to take a photo of their medications.
That’s the one thing that we ask them to upload. But what we really encourage people to do is that you can respond to each of the questions either using audio or text. And in the storytelling questions. So we’ve kind of got questions in there about like what was the nickname you had at school? How did you earn your pocket money as a kid. And what did you spend it on those sorts of questions? And you can use video for those. But what ends up happening is that when we’ve identified the important documents that you, you need, you actually get a to do list at the end of it. And so you then have connection to step by step guides to actually take you through on how to complete those tasks. But what we we do is when at the end of the 15 days you actually download all of your documents or all of the responses you’ve given, and you actually are encouraged to put your documents in a secure place. Now, anyone who’s been through this death administration experience knows that you actually need physical copies. All of the organizations when you’re actually dealing with closing accounts require physical copies at this point in time. So that’s what we do is we don’t ask you to upload. but actually find somewhere secure in your home and make sure your 2 key contacts know exactly where that location is.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, and that it’s probably flood and fireproof, too.
Catherine Ashton: Correct, exactly. And we go through all of that process. Yeah, yeah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: That’s so comprehensive, isn’t it? Part of me as as a autistic Adhd woman is a bit like Whoa. It feels like a lot, and I’ve got to do it in 15 days. What happens if if in that process for other neurodivergent or just anybody that would find that a little overwhelming. What what happens if you can’t get that kind of if you can’t do your 10 min each day. which sometimes doesn’t sound like a lot. But for some people can feel like a lot or can be.
Catherine Ashton: Yeah, achievable. So what happens if you can’t do it in the 15 days? Is there time to kind of space? That out? Yeah, look. And and this all came out through the focus groups. Is that that timeline like originally I’d done it for 7 days, and that was too overwhelming. But everyone. Some people want to sit down and do it like I’ve just done it with my 85 year old, mother, and we just did it in 2 days, and that was really easy to do. Sometimes the hardest part is collating the information and and working out where it’s all, and putting it in one spot. So that’s sometimes the hardest.
But if you are someone who does get overwhelmed, you can turn off the daily reminders in your profile because you get daily emails about. Okay, well, this is the next step that you’re doing. You can turn them off. It’s totally self-paced. So you know what it is is that it’s a chronological process. So you finish one day and then you move on to the next. But if you take 3 weeks to do that that’s entirely up to you, and there’s no pressure on that, because we’ve built it so you can. You can do it at your own pace.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, something.
Catherine Ashton: And the other thing is also is the fact that we’ve tried to make it as simple as possible. So, as I said, you know, the way in which actually recording is either typing it or voice recording, which is really easy to do. And video when it’s storytelling. So it kind of protects the pressure off having to type everything. So yeah, they’re the sort of things that you can do that sort of help with making it more of a achievable task for someone. And it was interesting. One of the sections that had to be modified in one of the focus groups was. you know, on day 14, we focus about end of life ceremony and take you through the process. And it’s quite detailed.
And about what people would like or what they wouldn’t like. And what I realized is that there’s some people that really don’t mind what happens to their body after they die, and they don’t mind how they’re, you know, memorialized. So there’s also now a tick box at the very top of the page, saying, Look, I’ve read it, and I don’t mind who does it. You know, if there’s 1 person that I would suggest, that would be the person that organizes this, it will be blah.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yes.
Catherine Ashton: So at least you’re actually giving someone permission to give, you know, to organize it for you. But we’ve tried to build in quite a bit of diversity in relation to it, and also in relation to gender and sexuality and 1st nation sensitivities. We’ve also made sure that we have a little add on platform or or app that we’ve put onto the the platform which is accessible. So it is actually specifically for people with Adhd, so they could actually be modified the settings to their liking. Same with low people with low vision. Anyone with epilepsy or or any flickering of the the screens. So we do have that add on that you can modify, for your access needs as well.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Oh, Catherine, I knew I liked you soon as we met. We just clicked right, but it sounds like it really has been such a thoughtful process to bring this to life, and and from from things that were really difficult. But you’ve taken that and and built something so meaningful and so helpful for people. I have no doubt this is going to really, really be helpful. What have been, perhaps some of the things that you’ve come across, where people struggle to engage in wanting to look at this, because I know, like we said before, working previously as a psychologist, people don’t want to face end of life, whether it’s their own or somebody else’s. But you know, as they say, nobody gets out of here alive, right? So we we have to deal with this at some point. What have been the things that come up most in terms of barriers, do you think, for people.
Catherine Ashton: I think, in relation to the platform through the focus groups. What was apparent in the last focus group that we did was that sometimes people feel a level of grief about when they’re thinking about planning their own funeral about. And there’s a different. There’s a different range of emotions that people feel. Some people felt that they feel guilty for dying and leaving this to someone else to be, and they loved ones to be responsible for it. So it’s that kind of preemptive grief, you know, if that’s the term for it. That’s sort of like what I refer to it as a sort of preemptive grief. And then and then there’s the grief that’s also when triggered. When you’re thinking about, you know, planning your own funeral, it reminds you of other funerals that you’ve attended. So sometimes that triggers other grief. So with that in mind because we’re we’re developing a series of workshops that we have been approached by various Home Hospice organizations, employment assistance programs to, and also employers who are quite, quite progressive in their thinking. Because, you know, when you think that we only get 2 bereavement days off for immediate family members.
And you think that I think there’s over 150 h work of admin that we have to do when someone dies, let alone give time for ourselves to grieve. You know, it’s just not enough. So we have some really amazing organizations that have come on board. And what we’re doing is we’re using the platform as the tool to have people organize their end of life planning. But as part of that process is having these conversations, because I think that that is the challenging thing is that people don’t have the conversations, or they don’t know how to start the conversations. So I’m working with a qualified counselor who in grief, who has had years of experience developing grief based programs. So we can be conscious of that. So when we’re working with their groups, we’re covering off on that. And also we’re providing cues in workshops, on, on how to start conversations, you know, with family members, because I think that there’s a lot of feedback and stories that I hear when I’m talking to groups, whether that be adult community daycare centers that I present to, or larger groups. What seems to be some challenges that older generations find is that they feel that based on the experience that I’ve I’ve had is they feel that they can’t change their mind once they’ve they’ve actually, you know, made a funeral plan where we know that you can change your mind at any point in time, and and, like you referred to this earlier is is the fact that these are living wills. These are living documents, so they need to represent who we are and what our likes and dislikes are. And as we change, we need to buy them and update them.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah.
Catherine Ashton: And and that’s why you know, on the platform it is a membership process, because it’s not a matter of just doing it once, and and that’s it. It’s done, you know. I want people to start realizing that this is something you need to revisit every 12 months, whether it’s when you, you know, change your clocks for daylight savings, or whether it’s when you do your tax. You know you need to be keeping on top of this on an annual basis and just making sure that they’re all active. And so that’s the one thing that I find when I speak to, perhaps older generations is that under that lack of understanding around the fact that they can change their their documents, they they can be updated to reflect their changes. And that’s really important that that happens, and also the fact that they, the people. it’s up to them to make the decisions based on their own values and to then seek the legal advice or the financial advice to actually make sure that their values and their wishes are documented, how they want them, because I feel that some people have said to me, oh, well, I don’t know the law. I don’t know the finances that.
Well. I’m saying you don’t need to. You actually go to the expert. They are the expert in the law. They are the expert in the finances. You let them know about what you want and how you want it to go, and then it’s up to them to document it according to the law and the financial, you know. So and I think that’s also a thing for someone as a business owner as well. It’s really important that, if you like, I said before, if you don’t know how to document it, seek the advice that you need, whether it’s from your financial advisor or your lawyer. So you make sure that there’s a continuity plan in place to ensure that your loved ones are protected, but also your business partner is protected, your assets are protected, your IP is protected, and your digital footprint, you know you haven’t spent thousands of hours and thousands of dollars on your digital footprint with social media and your accounts for it not to have a very clear process of what happens to it when you can’t actively manage it, you know. So it’s really important to look at all of those things, especially as a business owner.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, fantastic. It’s so thorough what you’ve done. I’m so impressed with it. And also you mentioned, you know, people get 2 debrieman days. I mean, if you’re self-employed. you, you are going to have to find a way of how am I gonna keep my business going whilst I’m dealing with grief or illness, or whatever it is. But you know 150 h of admin when the loved one dies, and I’m assuming that’s before you’ve got everything organized nicely. So if if nothing is organized, that’s 150 h plus trying to collate all this information right?
Catherine Ashton: Yeah. And and you know, like you said, that’s that’s if you know their wishes, you know. Add on, add on top of that also, if you, you have to have discussions about what you think those wishes are, and you know families can be challenging at those times when there’s time, constraints on decisions being made. You know, you can bring out the best and worst in people. So you know you can. You can really change outcomes if you document it early, you know, and have those conversations early.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah, so this is, this is a time as well to really bring compassion to yourself and others, isn’t it? Because this is hard? We’re not like, I said, particularly in Western culture. We’re not socialized into acknowledging death or talking about death. I think we do that really quite badly. Unfortunately, I think organizations like yours are shifting that narrative which is fantastic, and I love that you’re going to be offering workshops for people to engage in as well. but you know, bringing that compassion, acknowledging that this is hard and necessary. and I will certainly put all the links in the show notes where people can access your site and jump on and and start this process for themselves and their businesses as well. And if people have enjoyed this episode with you and I, I strongly encourage you to go and jump over to Catherine’s podcast don’t be caught dead. And you can hear Catherine and I chat there as well, but before we wrap up I always like to ask my guests this one question is, if you could meet your 80 year old self today, what do you think she would say to you.
Catherine Ashton: I love this question, and it’s such good timing. Because, as I mentioned, I’ve just been working with my mom on her critical info profile. and so I’m down with her in Gippsland in sale. And we yesterday went to the Sale Art Gallery, and they have this amazing exhibition on at the moment of an artist who, over a period of time has drawn portraits of people who have achieved the milestone of 100 plus years.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Oh, wow!
Catherine Ashton: And it was absolutely amazing. And what struck me is that a lot of them liked it. One tipple in the evening, whether it be a sherry or a whiskey, which was really quite interesting, and but they really didn’t know what the answer to them achieving the age of 100 plus years. They sometimes they just felt like they were still 40 or they’re not quite sure, really, why, they were either blessed, or, you know, fortunate unfortunate. However, they viewed that position to be to be 100 plus years. And it made me think, Yeah, you know, like. what age do you want to get to. And and how would you view yourself? And I think for me and the work that I did that I mentioned earlier when I had to do that that values work. When I was in the rehab center for 16 weeks in 2022. And what that has set me up to do is make sure that I put my values at the center of all of the decisions I make.
So, therefore, if I make a decision now, or if I make a decision in 20 years time, it’s driven by my values. And that’s why. For me, we made the organization a social enterprise. So it’s it’s profit, but with purpose, and we reinvest to increase death literacy, because I want to make sure that this is a business that has come out and was born out of tragedy from a friend dying. And I wanna I wanna make sure that we honor that and that whatever we do helps other people. So I think that you know, if I stick true to my values. I will be good now, and I will also be good at 80, and I will also be good at 100 plus years if I make it that long which in my family could be a possibility. There’s a couple of you know of of us that have gone quite, quite long in the in the age. So so I just think, you know. be true to my values here and then, and then I think that I’ll be able to quite happily look at myself in the mirror every morning when I get up, regardless of my age.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Yeah. Oh, it’s so beautiful, so beautiful. And I think you know, I think that values work is so important for all of us to do, to connect with what? What really is important and meaningful to us. And then how can we have that at the centre of what we do? Certainly when I work with people, it’s very much about values alignment in your business, because I think that way we work differently. We, we work from a different place, and it can be really nourishing and nurturing for us. Yeah. but I hope you and I both live very long and healthy lives, as do all the listeners, and that we get to have more of these conversations in the future. Like, I say, I think I said to you before, I like talking about death. Not everybody does so. Finding you as a fellow person that is open to those conversations is wonderful. But I think we do need to start talking about this more, and I’d encourage everybody that’s listening to, you know.
Think about this for yourself, have conversations with your families, with your friends, with your business associates. and go and check out Catherine’s work and the platform that she’s done. It is all now launched and live, which is fantastic, and thank you so much for coming on, Catherine and I look forward to you and I, catching up again soon.
Catherine Ashton: Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Haley.
Dr Hayley D Quinn: Absolute pleasure. See you all next week.