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This transcript is computer generated and may contain errors and not be an exact representation of the audio
Hi this is Welcome to Self® and I’m your host, Dr Hayley D Quinn, the anti-burnout business coach. I’m a speaker, author, former clinical psychologist and a late identified auDHDer.
Welcome to Self ® is a podcast for business owners like you who want success but not at the cost of your well-being. This is about transforming self and transforming business. I’ll be here to remind you that you’re human first and as well as being a business owner, you have different roles in your life that need your attention and to manage those well, you need to take care of yourself in the best way possible.
Here you’ll learn about practices that’ll help you navigate not just your business but your non-work life as well and you’ll realise that you’re not alone in the ways you struggle. You’ll have your curiosity piqued on various topics as I chat with wonderful guests and bring you solo bite-sized episodes.
I’m here for service-based business owners and entrepreneurs like you, to help you increase your self-care and compassion, change your relationship with yourself and your business, and elevate your business to a new level so you can live the full and meaningful life you desire.
This is a place of nourishment, growth and helpful information. A place where you can learn ways to assist you and your business to thrive.
We’ll talk all things mindset, strategy and well-being and I’m so excited you’re here. If you haven’t already, go and hit subscribe so you don’t miss an episode.
So, let’s get started
Hi and welcome back to another episode. Today’s going to be a little bit different, because I’m going to be sharing my burnout story. But rather than just tell you my story, I’ve got one of our past guests and a dear friend of mine, Emily Wilkinson here, and she’s actually going to swap seats with me, and she’s going to be doing the interviewing. So I’m really looking forward to that. I’m used to being the one asking the questions on this podcast, but today it’s going to be Emily doing that for me, and I’m so grateful. Thank you so much for joining me with this. Emily, really appreciate it.
Emily Wilkinson 2:18
Thanks, Hayley, what an honour to be asked actually, and to talk to you. You know, I know I was talking to you about this before we started recording, but yeah, big shoes to fill being on the other side of things and interviewing you. And what a what an important topic too. And I guess I was just thinking about, you’re very much the queen of burnout prevention. And, yeah, really looking forward to getting into our conversation today. And the first thing I’m thinking about is just really drilling down into, when did you first realize that you were in burnout? Like back in back when that happened? Do you mind telling us about that?
Hayley Quinn 3:09
Yeah, so my burnout was almost 10 years ago. I was thinking about this. It was almost 10 years ago now. And in some ways, it seems like a lifetime ago, and in others, it seems like it was just yesterday, really, and I didn’t realise for a long time. And back then, nobody was really talking that much about burnout. So now we have lots of conversations around this. There’s lots of information on social media, but back then, burnout really wasn’t something that was being spoken about. So I don’t know if at the time, I was labeling it as burnout. I just knew that things were really not okay, and that had taken a long time and and I wasn’t paying attention. I’ve spoken about this on other podcasts, and I’ve changed the relationship that I have with myself now to one that is far more compassionate, and I have these daily check ins with myself. But back then, I didn’t. I’d gone from being a single parent, studying, working, trying to get all the things done, starting a new career as a psychologist, and I really wasn’t paying that much attention to me. I was very outward focused on what I needed to get done, who needed my help, all that sort of stuff. So it took me a long time to pay attention to it, and even when those signs were sort of knocking, I didn’t listen. And that was absolutely to my detriment. So in the end, I ended up having to sort of walk away from my work. I was at a place where I was really, really unwell, and the impact of it really was quite devastating on very many levels.
Emily Wilkinson 4:50
Yeah, just wow. Hayley, it’s absolutely huge. And it sounds like it happened right at such a critical point where you’d finish just. Studies, is that right? And you’d started your new practice, yeah.
Hayley Quinn 5:04
So I’d been practicing for, I think, about four, three years, three or four years, I was working in a group practice. We all worked for ourselves, but we shared a group practice space, and it was a beautiful, supportive environment. We would have lunch times where nobody would book clients and we we’d be in one office having lunch together and chatting. So for me to have to leave that, that in itself, was really distressing, because the colleagues that I was working with, and a lot of clients that I was working with as well, like I was really enjoying my work, but my health was just deteriorating, and I got to the point where I had no choice, yeah,
Emily Wilkinson 5:46
yeah. And it can be so easy to miss, just like you say at the time when you’re in it, especially, you know, at that time when not as much was perhaps talked about around burnout, it can be and even now, it can be so easy to miss those things, those early signs, like that’s exactly what happened for you.
Hayley Quinn 6:09
Yeah, so when I kind of look back and reflect, I had started just feeling more tired. And you know, I’d been a single parent for a long time. By this point, I was married and I was obviously sharing some of the load at home, but I had been a single parent for like, 13 years, and I’d been studying, think it took me nine years from starting to finishing my PhD, so I’ve been, I’ve been doing a lot, and I had thought I was taking care of myself, and in lots of ways, I was taking good care of myself. But you can’t just keep pushing and pushing and pushing and think that it’s going to be okay, because we’re not machines, right? We’re human beings. And I’d started getting sick a bit more often. I was more tired, and even a good sleep wasn’t kind of getting me recovered from that. I was starting to kind of get that those Sunday dreads of like, I’ve got to go to work and I don’t feel up to it. And at the time, I was working as a psychologist, and it’s not the sort of work where you want to turn up feeling unwell, you know, you want to be there feeling like you can be really present for your clients. And there was many days where I didn’t feel like I was 100% and I think what also was happening, the less resilient I was feeling, the more self doubt and self criticism was showing up. And I’ve also seen this in a lot of other people I’ve worked with, where they are moving towards burnout, or they are in burnout, and we’re working on recovery is when that resilience starts to drop. The self critic has a really nice opportunity to jump in and start telling you how useless you are, and you know you’re not a good enough therapist, or you’re not good enough at whatever it is you do. And so there became, for me, this kind of compounding emotional aspect, bringing up lots of fears and worries that other people would judge me. I was certainly judging myself. There was the health aspect, aspect, aspect, gosh, can’t even speak. I’m actually recovering from covid. I’m feeling well, but obviously my brain isn’t quite caught up to where I need to be. So there was lots of things I can remember driving to work. It was about a half hour drive, and by the time I got to work, my hands would be in pain from holding the steering wheel. I would feel quite exhausted, and I’d sit in my office and think, oh my gosh, I’m already exhausted, and I haven’t even started work yet. So I’d have this kind of anxiety bubbling around as well. And then it got to the point where I literally had a day where a client, I remember a client had left during the session. I was feeling really unwell. I was feeling quite sort of like brain foggy and and I can remember thinking to myself, I really need this session to be over, and I really hope the client doesn’t recognize that’s what’s happening for me. So I had this sense of really wanting to be there for my client, feeling so awful that I just wanted the session to be over. And when they walked out the door and I closed the door behind them, I just burst out crying in my office, like I’d got to the point where I just didn’t know what I was going to do. I felt so unwell. I’d worked so long and so hard to become a psychologist, I’d found this practice where I was working with clients who I really enjoyed working with, with colleagues who I adored, and it was all just coming crashing down around me. Wow.
Emily Wilkinson 9:58
Yeah, you speak to that. So beautifully, in the sense that, like, what a journey you’d actually gone through to get to that point, and then also the other side of that, being that that can have such a cumulative effect. You know, you’d done a PhD. You’d been doing that as a single mom. You’d, I mean, even going back prior to that, you’d, you were, you’d moved to Australia from the UK, and like just so many elements, you know, you’d managed to just do so brilliantly. And yet, what you’re kind of saying, I think, is, but that was taking its toll
Hayley Quinn 10:37
absolutely, yeah, and I was diagnosed autistic with ADH or identified as autistic with ADHD, almost three years ago now. So at the time, I had no idea either that was neurodivergent. So I was also trying to fit myself into a world and a system that was not built for me. Thankfully. I now know differently, and I do things very differently, but back then, I just kept trying to push through. And I think because I was starting to feel inadequate, that was what I was telling myself. It’s like, Well, I’m not coping with this. There’s something wrong with me. I was trying to do better. I was trying to push through. I was trying to prove somehow that, no, I can do this, I can do this. And I wasn’t great at asking for help. Now, I’ve had, I’ve always worked in my adult life. I’ve had my own psychologist or therapist through my adult life for different things, and so I was okay at having my appointments that I booked like I paid for that help that was, you know, I was okay to go and do that, but when it came to actually asking for help or speaking up and saying, Actually, I’m not okay, I just wasn’t good at that. Thankfully, I am good at that now, because it’s been a practice, but I wasn’t good at that, so I was trying to, I guess, really stay masked and and let people see that actually I’m okay. I’m okay. Don’t worry. It’s nothing. Too bad my colleagues at the time could see and I started having conversations there because I had to. I was kind of forced to, but it was all very much at the point when I had to. And I think they’re, you know, both for myself and for other people I’ve worked with, I think there can be a lot of shame, particularly when you’re in a helping role. You know, I was a psychologist, surely I should have known how to manage all this. You know, these are the things we tell ourselves. And I think, you know, when there’s a lot of shame, that can really impact whether you do tell people you’re okay, whether you do access the things you need, whether you start to behave in ways that are going to be more helpful. So really, then starting to have these conversations with people and acknowledge, actually, I’m not okay. My health is deteriorating. I don’t feel like I’m coping well, you know, having that conversation with my husband, having that conversation with some close friends and like people, like my supervisor at the time, that was actually really helpful. Just took me a long time to get there. You know, the messages were nudging and I wasn’t listening. And at the end of the day, when we don’t listen. Those nudges just get louder and louder and louder.
Emily Wilkinson 13:24
Yes, that’s so true, and it sounds so understandable the way, the way you tell that story, that actually those coping techniques, it would have seemed and in many ways, they served you so well, so far as in, like they’d got you through a PhD, and it’s understandable in so many ways, that you were thinking, well, actually, I’m just going to keep doing what I always do. And yet there was this voice just continually getting louder and louder and nudging you in a different direction. Like, no, we actually, yeah, you actually need to change things. And, oh, I imagine, do you find that that pattern is quite common with people you work with?
Hayley Quinn 14:11
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think, like, I say, I think there can be a lot of shame. I also think a lot of the time people aren’t really that aware that that’s the direction they’re heading in there, I think we have some messaging which isn’t that helpful. I think sometimes people say I’m feeling really burnt out, when actually they’re they are tired. And that’s not to minimize people being tired, but there’s a big difference between being tired and being able to, sort of like, have a quiet weekend and some early nights, and within a week, you’re kind of feeling back to yourself and actually being burnt out. And I think because we don’t distinguish these conversations, enough people can get caught in I’m probably just tired and everyone else is. Coping, so I should be able to cope. And that’s when I think we start to push ourselves and, of course, people’s own kind of history and experiences in life and the messaging they’ve had, you know, a lot of people that I’ve worked with, both previously as a psychologist and also now as a coach, is that messaging of, you know, when you’re growing up and you’re growing up and you’re sort of sitting around, it’s like, don’t, don’t be lazy, don’t sit around, go outside and do something. And we carry these right? We carry these messages, and they can become really, really unhelpful, yeah, and then we get to this place where we’re not taking care of ourselves properly, and the impacts of that can be devastating. I mean, for me, it was, I had to walk away from my my business, basically, and that was my income. Now, had I still been a single parent, that would have been really devastating. I was fortunate that I was remarried. I have a very supportive husband. We had savings in the bank, and he was happy to just let me recover and do what I needed. Not everybody’s in that position, either. I recognize my privilege for that, but that was that was an impact on income for a long time, because I built up a practice where I was busy. I ended up starting a home based business. And I started off really small again, and I took my time to build that up, because I was really fearful of getting burnt out again. So it was a financial impact. My health was impacted. And I would say, even, even now, I still have some impacts from my developed chronic illness, so I still deal with some of that. I had had lots of times where I’d had to cancel on social engagements because I didn’t feel up to it, or I didn’t want to talk to people about what was happening for me. So I had some friendships go by the wayside. My relationship with myself, whilst it’s now extremely compassionate, I had had previously a very toxic relationship with myself. It had started to kind of ease off, but then it just ramped up, like the toxicity of the relationship and the way I was talking to myself for a period of time was really, really awful, like I say, thankfully I’ve changed that and done a lot of work on that now, but there was just impacts on all that stuff you know, your relationships, your income, your health, the practicalities of what You can and can’t get done in your life. So it’s a very, very high price to pay, and this is why I’m so passionate about burnout prevention. I talk a little bit about my own story in my in my debut book, and I certainly talk about burnout in there and how we can change the relationship with ourselves, and how we can take care of ourselves in a way that suits us, because I don’t want anybody else going through this. The reason we’re doing this for season nine, really focusing on burnout prevention, is I don’t want to see other people go through this. It can be absolutely devastating on so many levels, and there are ways of preventing it. I think we have this narrative that, you know, it’s inevitable. Burnout is just something that happens. I heard on a podcast. Can’t remember what the podcast is, and I wouldn’t mention them anyway, but, and they said, you know, burnout is inevitable. Better you get it sooner than later. And I was in the car. I was with my husband at the time, and I was just ranting. I can’t believe it, just it’s not inevitable,
Emily Wilkinson 18:51
but it’s so telling that that is what they said.
Hayley Quinn 18:56
I think it can be seen as this badge of honor. Oh yeah. I’m really, oh yeah, I’m really, I’m so so busy, and I’m doing so much I’ve got any time. And it’s like, if those words are coming out of your mouth, please pay attention to that,
Emily Wilkinson 19:10
right? And like, I think that comes through so strongly in your work, and I absolutely cannot wait to read your book, by the way, because I’d love to know even more about it. But what comes through stroke so strongly in your work is that deep passion for helping other people not experience those real depths of burnout, and just how destructive that can be, and that we really underestimate what that means. And yeah, you’re so strongly, yeah,
Hayley Quinn 19:42
and this isn’t some like magic elixir that you know, read my book or work with me or listen to my podcast, and you’re never going to feel tired again in your life or something. This is realistic. I mean, we are going to have times where we have to push harder than. We might like to we are going to have times where we’re perhaps holding more of the load at home than we normally would. We are going to have times where we’ve got seasons in our life that are more difficult, that is part of being human, that is realistic, but it’s what we do with that and how we treat ourselves during those times that becomes really important. I was talking to my husband just this morning before jumping on with you, and I was talking about a concept that I like to call front loading self care. And when we know that we’ve got something major coming up, or something bigger than normal, particularly busy time is that we can do extra to take care of ourselves. So we have this kind of front loading of self care. We have whatever the event is, and we’re taking care of ourselves during that as well. And then we have, like the recovery self care as well,
Emily Wilkinson 20:56
which is quite a radical approach to self care, isn’t it, to act, to get ahead of it, and to get in front of things that might impact us quite strongly. And you have to know yourself quite well to be able to identify those
Hayley Quinn 21:10
moments Absolutely and that’s my kind of aim with the book, is to take people through this process of getting to know themselves, understanding what is helpful for them, understanding what it is that they want, and what they want life to look like, and then some of these things that we can do to be able to take care of ourselves and honor our well being in everything that we do, you know, we don’t have to set our side ourselves and our well being aside When we’re doing other things, it needs to be part of it, right?
Emily Wilkinson 21:45
Yeah, yeah. And it sounds like your book really guides the reader through that. Yes, I can’t wait. So just going back Hayley to your burnout experience and how that was, I guess, how long, like, how long do you feel like, you know, from memory, how long were you in that period of burnout? And I guess, what did you do to recover?
Hayley Quinn 22:12
Wow, yeah, so I say it’s nearly 10 years ago. So, and we know memory is pretty rubbish, so, but it was a significant amount of time, like I stepped away from my practice. I started something up, very minor in terms of working, but that wasn’t immediate. Look, I’d say there was at least, at least 12 months of really, kind of bringing my health back, probably longer I was able to start working again within that time. So it wasn’t like I stopped everything, but I really had to make the very difficult decision, like, I say, to leave the practice that I was at. So I stepped away from work and said, Okay, I need to dismantle everything, basically, and start rebuilding my life in a way that I think is going to work better. And that was something for me that did take some experimentation, and I kind of gave myself permission to try something, see if it worked for me and if it didn’t not, keep doing it, and that led me to kind of evolving my business as well, because I had primarily had a very high clinical load, and then was also doing some supervision and training of other psychologists only mine and stuff with the training after the burnout, I kind of balanced my caseload a little bit more so I wasn’t seeing predominantly clinical clients. I was seeing clinical clients, but I was also doing a lot more supervision, and that was just that one step removed that just made it that little bit easier. And then as my health improved and I started to do this sort of work with myself, I was really fortunate, prior to my burnout, that I’d started to learn about compassion focused therapy, and that’s very much a therapy that you embody so you get the benefit of your for yourself, and you’re then able to more effectively use it with your clients. And I was very fortunate to be trained and mentored and develop a beautiful friendship with Professor Paul Gilbert, who’s the founder of compassion focused therapy. And there was an opportunity to do some training and introduction to CFT in Singapore. And I’d reached out to Paul to see if he was available and wanted to do it, and he was actually training somewhere else, and he said to me, I think you should do it. And I totally freaked out and said, Well, that’s ridiculous, Paul. I’m not ready to do that at all. And I think. His words were, you’ll never be ready. It’s been like having a baby. You’ve just got to do it. Well, yeah, so So I did, and I went over to Singapore. So I’d gone from like, not being able to get off the couch, or if I tried to put a load in the washing machine, I was absolutely exhausted, to kind of getting my health back on track, changing how I was doing things in my business, and then going over to Singapore to do training. I was invited to New York to present. It was a little bit mind blowing. I remember walking through Central Park and thinking, How is this? How is this my life all of a sudden, like I felt like everything was ruined, and now I’ve got these opportunities so compassion focused therapy and really understanding how we operate as a human. Paul will call it the science of being human. I think he’s spot on, understanding how I operate in the world as human also, you know, in more recent times, understanding how I operate in the world as a neurodivergent woman, learning how to change that relationship with myself, and really notice that self critic and realize that that’s a response from my threat system that I need To address and developing a compassionate self that for me, I think of everything I look back on, that fundamentally for me, is what changed my life. It changed the way I treat myself. It changed the way I make choices. It changed the way I took care of my health. So there was lots of things. You know, asking for help from others became a big one for me, knowing that I don’t actually have to do everything by myself, even though that’s been messaging I’ve had through my life, and the story I’ve told myself through my life, so really sort of looking at what have been my my beliefs and how they impacted me. So there was a lot of internal work, and then there was a lot of external change. Yeah, you know what needs to be done differently, what isn’t serving me, what’s actually going to be harmful for me, and then getting into this practice of doing this daily check in with myself, but also these regular check ins with, like, my 80 year old self, because she’s really wise. It’s like, what do you need for me to be doing today?
Emily Wilkinson 27:30
What kind of things does she say?
Hayley Quinn 27:32
Oh my gosh, I will sometimes check in if I’m going to do something. I really struggle with getting out and going for walks. I love going for walks, but there’s something about the, you know, getting out there and doing the walk that I struggle with. And sometimes I’ll just check in, I’ll be like, so just checking in, am I actually tired, or am I avoiding yep, yep. And often the wisdom that comes back will be, and it will depend on the day it might be. You know, you’ve just got back from conference, or you’ve got covid, you’ve just, you’re covering from covid. Maybe it’s time to just have another day of resting, or another time it might be, does it feel like avoidance? Wow, yeah, it’d be like, as it feels like avoidance. It’s like, so how you know? How am I going to be if you keep saying no to a walk every day? And then I think about my eight year old self, and I think, oh my gosh, you might have a walker. She might struggle to get up out the chair. Do I want that for her? No, I don’t want that for her. Yes.
Emily Wilkinson 28:46
So there’s such a huge perspective shift when you check
Hayley Quinn 28:51
Wow, because me not going for a walk today probably isn’t going to impact me that much today. Yeah, but if I keep doing that, what’s it going to mean for me down the track in a year, or five years, or 10 years, or when I’m 80? Yeah, beautiful. I think, yeah. So I think there’s been lots of lots of layers to the recovery, and this is the other reason I’m so passionate about burnout prevention, because prevention takes less time, costs less money, and is less cognitively heavy than actually being in recovery, right? Exactly.
Emily Wilkinson 29:35
And I think you’ve spoken to a couple of things that you do now that prevent that from happening again. But is there anything else you’d want to add to that? For the for the listeners thinking, Well, how do I prevent this?
Hayley Quinn 29:48
Look for me, it’s a daily practice. It really is. It’s was it’s a relationship with myself. And I’m in relationship with myself all day, every day, and I have. Regular check ins. I have a check in with myself first thing in the morning. I check in with myself. During the day, if I’m particularly busy, I will set alarms to remind myself to check in with myself, like I have ADHD. So I have alarms in my phone for so many things, but it helps. It really helps. It’s like, okay, I have ADHD, if I try and remember stuff myself, I’m probably not going to remember and it won’t get done. That’s not helpful for me. So I have a system of alarms in my phone, and I use them when I need to use them. And that is really helpful. I The other thing I’m not great at, and I think, I think because being autistic, I can struggle sometimes to recognize when I’m thirsty. So I struggle with water. I used to just be critical of myself for that, and now I’m like, Oh no, that makes sense. Actually. You know, being an autistic woman, those things can be challenging sometimes. So I have, you know, water all over the place so that I can remember to drink it. I still sometimes don’t remember. So if anyone’s got any great tips about how I can remember to drink more water, please, please send me a DM or an email, because I’m so open to that, that there are areas I think we all have that are more challenging than others. I went plant based about six, seven years ago, which was amazing for my health and for compassion. You know, obviously compassion is my passion and great for the environment. So that was something that my husband and I did six, seven years ago. I’ve spent time making sure that is done well, that I’m not just replacing meat with nothing. So the nutrition aspect, making sure that I’m fueling my body in a way that is healthy has been important social connection, and again, that’s going to differ for everybody in terms of how much of that we need, but making sure that I am connected, because I can have a tendency to like to just be at home on my own, so I’m conscious and mindful about am I staying connected with people and enjoying that so they would be? I think the main things I know I’m probably forgetting something, obviously speaking to myself in a kind and compassionate way and just really paying attention my business has evolved, like I said, I kind of balance things out with clinical and supervision work. And then I’d started having people ask me about, how can they set up their business so that it not going to burn out? And I started doing business coaching probably about five years ago, and I was really enjoying that. So again, I started to tweak what I was doing. I was doing more training of other people. I was doing some speaking events. And then over time, I just kept minimizing the psychology side of things. And then last November, I actually gave up my psychology registration, which was a huge decision. I had some very long term clients that I’d been working with that was really hard to say goodbye to them, and I knew it was the right decision for me, and I focused in on my business, coaching and training and speaking, and obviously I’ve been a podcast for a number of years, so it’s really keeping an eye on what am I doing in my life? Does it suit me? We change and evolve, and it’s okay for the things we’re doing to change and evolve, and the relationships that we have in our life to change and evolve as well. So I think it’s really just staying connected to myself and being mindful of of what I am and what I’m not doing. And is it, is it helpful for me, right?
Emily Wilkinson 34:09
Yeah, and how fundamental that is. And just, just to add to that, too, Hayley, something that I’ve really noticed when we’ve spent time together is that you totally walk the talk. I think,
Unknown Speaker 34:24
as
Emily Wilkinson 34:26
psychologists, you know, with your psychologist background, you know, as psychologists, we can be very guilty of, you know, advising our clients to do certain things, and they’re not necessarily following through in the same way for ourselves, and it just has always struck me that you really, you absolutely do what you talk about, and you don’t like you said earlier. You don’t pretend that there’s some kind of magic fix or magic wand you talk about the work in progress, that being. Having a different relationship with ourselves needs a work in progress, and that you’re you’re constantly in communication with your 80 year old self, or you’re checking in, and you’re doing that genuinely on a daily, weekly, you know, basis.
Hayley Quinn 35:20
Oh, thank you. I really appreciate that, because authenticity is a strong value of mine. I know that’s a word that people are throwing around here, there and everywhere, and I read something a while ago that, you know, we shouldn’t even use that word anymore, and I’m like, No, I’m using that word. That’s an important word to me, so that that is the biggest compliment that I get from people, is to say that I do walk my talk. That’s not to say I get it right all the time. There are times that I am not going out for my walk and I am sitting watching Netflix, or I am, you know, during this process of the book, that’s been another personal growth journey, as these things tend to be. I say to people, you know, business ownership is one of the biggest personal growth journeys you’ll go on. It’s not about business, it’s about you. You got to get out your own way. You got to deal with your own stuff. And writing this book, you know, if I had given in to the the feelings of imposter and the self criticism and the sort of like, who am I to be writing this book and all that stuff that shows up. If I hadn’t been able to just notice that and be like, of course, you, of course you’re feeling like this, darling, this is vulnerable. You’re putting work out into the world. That’s a vulnerable thing to do, then there probably would be no book. Yeah. And, and also, the book’s been really helpful in terms of if I’d have just sat here hours upon hours, never getting out my chair, not stopping to eat, not seeing anybody, not doing anything. That’s helpful for me, but only writing the book. The book is like from self neglect to self compassion, like it’s a reminder every time I sit with the book. Well, you can’t skip all your meals or not get up to go to the bathroom or tell your husband, no, I don’t want to go out for that walk, or let’s not go for dinner, because I’ve got the book, I’ve got the book, and neglect my relationships, because that would be the antithesis of the book, right?
Speaker 1 37:19
Yeah, so you were really living it as you were writing it, and so conscious and reflective about that, yeah, okay, when I’m making a decision about what to do next, it’s not always going to be, you know, that I put the book first because I’ve got to come first, absolutely.
Hayley Quinn 37:35
And I think, I think, and as, particularly as women, I think we can struggle with that. I’m going to put myself first. It’s like, yeah, absolutely, put yourself first. It’s not selfish, it’s essential, and it will mean that you can do the things you need to do, whether that’s for yourself or for other people, in a much more effective way, in a much more helpful way, than if you are feeling exhausted, feeling irritated, feeling resentful, feeling burnt out. It’s not worth it. Like you know you said that, that’s the thing that stands out to me, that a lot of the times we can people can be guilty of telling people to do things but not doing it themselves. The cost of burnout, to me was so high I am not willing to go back there. So if that means I change the relationship with myself and I check in every day, I’m not always going to get it right, and that’s okay. But if that means that this is a constant practice for the rest of my life, I’m all in for it, because it’s absolutely worth it. My life is like so much better than it’s ever been.
Emily Wilkinson 38:47
Yeah, yeah, and that you’re sharing that wisdom is just so powerful. You know, in the book and in your podcast and in everything you do in your programs, that wisdom that other people can benefit from your experience and expertise is pretty incredible. I did also want to ask you, Hayley, this is probably a bit of an overarching question, but if you’re looking back on your journey and what happened with burnout, what has been your biggest lesson
Hayley Quinn 39:23
that I am the most important asset in my life, the relationship with myself is more important than anything else in my life. And that’s not to minimize the other important things in my life.
Emily Wilkinson 39:39
Yes, very powerful. I got goosebumps, as you said that.
Hayley Quinn 39:45
And also compassion is just the best,
Emily Wilkinson 39:48
right there in kind of part of the same. Yeah. So if you had one thing to say to others, what would it be?
Hayley Quinn 40:00
Be not good at one that was supposed to say one thing I’m like, can say three?
Hayley Quinn 40:14
Choose you. Yes, choose you and take care of yourself in the way that you would take care of somebody you deeply care about,
Emily Wilkinson 40:26
yeah, yeah. Would you say that’s something like, is that a big part of your book? Because obviously I haven’t read it yet. No one has. Not many people
Hayley Quinn 40:38
me and my publisher and my editor,
Emily Wilkinson 40:40
exactly that kind of teaching people how to do that.
Hayley Quinn 40:44
Or, yeah, yeah. It takes you on a bit of a journey of understanding what it means to be human, and then understanding that on a more nuanced level of understanding yourself as a human, thinking about what you want, what you’ve perhaps been putting aside, and learning how to do things differently so that you can create the life that is going to allow you to thrive. There’s lots of meditations through the book, which I think is going to be really lovely. So it’s, it’s very much a book that will, you know, explain some concepts, but not in a kind of like, oh, yawn way, but take you through this experiential practice. And I really, I really do believe that by the time somebody gets to the end of the book, they will have had change in some form.
Emily Wilkinson 41:44
Yes, wow. Say that about many books. So um, now, um, this feels like a little strange asking you the question that I’ve heard you ask so many of your guests. But I also really love this question. So lucky me getting to ask it. Let me ask you if you could meet your 80 or 80 year old self today. What do you think she’d say to you?
Hayley Quinn 42:12
Oh, wow. It makes me a bit emotional. I think she would say, Thank you for taking care of me and for creating a beautiful life well done. And I think she’d tell me that she’s proud of me, yes, and so she should be. It’s such an emotional question I want to I always love asking about one of my guests,
Emily Wilkinson 42:43
such a lovely question, yeah, oh my goodness. Hayley, thank you so much for being so vulnerable and sharing so much of your wisdom with us. And yeah, just feel really grateful to have been able to have this have this conversation with you.
Hayley Quinn 43:00
Thank you so much, Emily. And thank you for being such a fantastic interviewer that’s been so fun, kind of swapping the chairs and doing this differently. And thank you to you all for tuning in. I hope you found that helpful. There’s going to be some other interviews with some amazing women coming up as well, and also some more bite sized episodes where I’m going to give you some reflective questions and some tips so that you can work on your own burnout prevention. My book from self neglect to self compassion will be available for pre sales in less than two months now, and if you’re not already on the book wait list, please come and join us over there. I’ll be sharing sneak peeks as we go along, and it’s just really lovely knowing that you’re all out there following along, so you’ll be able to find that information in the show notes. Don’t forget as well. If you do a rating and review and you send me a screenshot before, I think it was the sixth of October, then you’ll go into a draw to win a coaching call with me. This is to celebrate 100 episodes. Today is episode 98 so we’re literally a couple of episodes away, which is so exciting. If you’ve got any ideas of how we might celebrate that as well, feel free to send me a DM or an email and until next week, go well and go gently with yourself. Bye. Thanks for sharing this time with me today. I hope it’s been helpful and supportive. If there’s been something in this episode that you have found helpful, I encourage you to share it with your business besties, so they can benefit too. Shares, ratings and reviews really help to increase awareness and reach of the podcast, meaning more people can benefit from the information. I really appreciate you taking the time if you’d like to know about the ways we can work together. Check out my website at Dr Hayley. Hayley D quinn.com I’ll pop the link in the show notes, and you can also join my mailing list from there and be kept up to date with all this happening. I do need to say because, you know, legal stuff, this podcast is solely for the purpose of education and entertainment. This podcast is not intended as a substitute for individual advice or advice of health professionals or other qualified professionals. Okay, now we’ve got that formal stuff out the way. I love hearing from listeners, so don’t be shy. Reach out and let me know your thoughts on the episode or what else you’d like to hear about. I wish you well in your relationship with yourself and your business, and may you go well and go gently and remember, if you thrive, your business will too.