Episode #11 Creativity and Self Care with Dr Grainne Schafer
Hi, this is Welcome to Self ™ Caring for the Human in the Therapist Chair, and I’m your host, Dr. Hayley D Quinn, fellow human, clinical psychologist, supervisor and trainer. Welcome to Self ™ is a place where you can come and learn ways to elevate your own care and compassion. A place to rest, be soothed, and at times maybe gently challenged to think about yourself and your practice. A place to remember that you are human first, choose the helping profession is just one of the roles in your life. My aim is that this is a place of soothing, comfort, nourishment, growth and nurture. A place where you can also welcome your self.
Hi, welcome to another episode. I’d like to take a moment to thank Erin for leaving feedback on Instagram. Erin said,
“I would highly recommend the podcast. I’ve already taken so much from it, and I’m so glad I discovered it before starting training. This last episode was really illuminating.”
Erin was referring to Episode Six with Jennifer Kemp. So, if you haven’t already, go and check it out. Erin, thank you so much for leaving feedback. It’s very much appreciated, and I wish you all the best with your training. I’m really pleased to introduce my next guest Dr. Grainne Schafer. Grainne is a clinical psychologist, born and raised in Ireland, trained in London, and currently based in Brisbane. In her clinical work, she has a special interest in working with anxiety and PTSD, drawing from cognitive and behavioural approaches, including CFT, ACT and CBT. In seeking a work life balance, she reconnected with her childhood love of drawing, and created The Mind Committee comic, to help her reflect on her own tricky mind, which she hopes will help others to. More recently, she’s been working on a new project, called The Mind Committees, Portraits of the Mind. Seeking to give the world a glimpse into people’s minds and showing that we all have parts of us that we can struggle with, no matter what you’re seeing on the outside, and that’s okay. Grainne and I met back in 2018, at the UQ Compassion Lab. And I’m pleased to say we’ve developed a lovely friendship since then, it is my absolute pleasure to welcome Grainne to the podcast.
Hayley: Hi, Grainne. Welcome to Welcome to Self ™
Grainne: Thank you so much for having me, Hayley.
Hayley: It’s a real pleasure having you here. So, can you start by telling us a little bit about yourself? What drew you to the helping professions?
Grainne: Yep. So, I grew up in Ireland, and then I trained in London and then moved to Brisbane a few years ago. In terms of what drew me to the helping profession, when I was a preteen, I remember, my sister would have like those, you know, teenage magazines like J 17. And she’d have them in her room, and I remember, I think like I wasn’t I don’t think I was told I wasn’t allowed to read them, but I kind of felt like I wasn’t allowed to read them. But I was always really curious about them. And I’d always go straight to the agony end pages. And I’d always be really curious about what people’s problems were and then what the responses were. So, I remember thinking, I’d like to do that. Like that would be really, like I don’t know, a really interesting job. So that was kind of my initial interest. Then when I was 17, and I was trying to decide on a career path. I was actually swayed away from psychology. Because I think at the time, there wasn’t like a very clear career route in Irelands or at least maybe the people that were guiding me didn’t really have that knowledge. So, and I was told like it was just too long and complicated a career path. So, I started studying Pharmacy, moved to London, and did a year of it and realised this is really not for me at all. There was just so much chemistry and I just did not have the drive. So, then I switched to psychology. And then from there I just kind of felt like yeah, this is the right path for me and stayed on to study clinical.
Hayley: Wow. So, from quite a young age, you kind of knew you were drawn to that. But then there was this sort of detour, and gosh yeah, chemistry that wouldn’t have been up my alley at all.
Grainne: Yeah, and it might not have helped, we had a career guidance teacher at a school who basically told people to either be nurses or engineers. So, we weren’t really given much variety.
Hayley: Oh, but you found where you wanted to be? Yeah. So, as we all know, our work can be challenging at times. So how do you manage to navigate life as a helping professional, amongst your everyday life?
Grainne: I think I found that since starting, like once I started the doctorate, that I realised that I really needed to take care of myself. Because we like we do quite complicated and important jobs. So, I think I got quite good at, like making sure that I have a good sleep routine and get enough sleep every day and eat relatively healthily. And, like, I guess, a main thing for me as well is regular exercise. But my brain is really annoying, it forgets regularly, that exercise is good for me, and that I really benefit from it. So, I often have to remind it because it’s kind of like I say, like, Okay, let’s go out for a run and my brains like a run, what, I was like, is there a point to that? I have a little like, semi argument with it every time and then I go for the run. And then like, oh, actually, this is great.
Hayley: You see one up on me on that. Because my, that is the struggle for me, is the exercise piece. And I kind of go, should I and then I tend to not. So good on you for actually getting out there and doing that.
Grainne: Oh, yeah. Well, that’s probably like 10% of the time. I think.
Hayley: It’s hard, though, isn’t it? I mean, as human beings, there’s often things we know are going to be really helpful for us, but actually doing them and committing to doing them is the hard part.
Grainne: Yeah, yeah. It can just be so hard to get over that hurdle. It’s kind of like I think especially if you’re not feeling that great. And then getting over that hurdle to do something where you feel better. It’s just it’s, it can be really hard to remember.
Hayley: And that’s the thing, isn’t it? It’s the remembering, but then when you remember, and you don’t particularly want to do it. I’ll often have these things for myself of like, I wish I was that person that loves to go out and exercise. Because then you wouldn’t think twice so much about it. Yeah, that’s certainly not me. So how do you manage your own wellbeing? Do you use particular strategies that you teach your clients? What do you do? I mean, you’ve mentioned the sleep and eating well, and exercising, when you can convince your brain it’s good.
Grainne: Exactly. And I kind of see those as like the cornerstones that if they’re not really in place, then I’m probably not going to be feeling that great. And I’ve also kind of recently discovered just like my house being tidy is another thing that really helps as well. But in terms of say strategies, I guess two of the main like therapies that I work in is Acceptance and Commitment Therapy and Compassion Focused Therapy. And I think I was drawn to both of those, because there’s a lot of different strategies and techniques and skills within those two that I find really beneficial myself. So, like I love say, the kind hand gesture of like putting your hands on your chest if you’re feeling a certain way. And I think it’s just it’s a really nice way of being supportive towards yourself, but without really having to say, kind of maybe, think so much in that moment, particularly if you’re currently feeling stressed. It’s pretty hard to, to think clearly and to slow things, but it helps with slowing things down.
Hayley: Yeah, for sure. For sure. I think I can relate as well with that ACT and CFT are my probably, my two frameworks as well. And again, drawn to them, because through learning them and implementing them in my own life, I could really see the benefits of those sort of things.
Grainne:: Yeah. And it’s really encouraged in the training as well, to do that. So,
Hayley: Absolutely. That sort of, from the inside out learning, which I think is really great. So, you have a wonderful Instagram page, The Mind Committee, which I love and have been following for a while. And you’ve started another one, The Minds Committee
Grainne: Ah, The Mind Committees. Exactly.
Hayley: I knew I’d get that bit wrong. And you use creativity in your personal life a lot. Can you tell us a bit about that?
Grainne: Yeah. So, I guess I started getting back into more creative things a couple of years ago. So, I really really enjoyed drawing as a child. And then you know, you just lose touch with it as you grow up a bit, I think and I’d started, I did some arts, say in secondary school, but then I remember feeling pressure with say that being graded, so then, and I’d noticed I wasn’t enjoying it as much. So, then I kind of moved away from it. But I started linking in back in with it again. And it was actually, so with The Mind Committee in terms of how I got the idea for it. I was attending personal therapy, and I don’t know how it came about, but I told my therapist how my husband and I had given our cat some honorary names. Her like, her name was Meows, but like we’d call her like the Chairman of the Sleep Committee, because she was always like, in bed before us. Her sleep hygiene was excellent, like, she was an excellent model for that. And, in one session, I’d been like, I guess, mentioning how I could be quite self-critical and like, you know, kind of, so we were talking about my, my inner critic, and my therapist said, I wonder if you could maybe send or like, your critic could maybe, you could like forward their complaints to your cat and like, give your cat another title. And I really liked that idea of just like saying to my inner critic, okay, well, thanks for your concern, let’s just forward these complaints onto the cat. So then, I thought like, that might be quite a good comic. So, then I started thinking about The Mind Committee, and you know, what different characters lived in my mind. And like, at the time as well, it was trying to be more compassionate. So, I thought, well, this could be a way of kind of building up my self-compassion as well, because I kind of thought, as I say that there is, you know, a little system already existing my mind. And then like, I was kind of curious, like, what would happen if compassion comes along now and disrupts that system? And so that’s where it all came from,
Hayley: Oh, it’s fantastic. I mean, I love it. I recommend anybody to go and follow it on Instagram, it’s really great to see the different comics that you’ve developed and continue to develop. So, what is it in your work that you enjoy most, whether that is your clinical work that you do, or the creative work that you are engaged in as well?
Grainne: Well, I think with both of them, I think one of the main things that I really like is getting into flow, and I find that I can get into flow with, with both of them, although they’re very, very different. If I’m staying with my arts, when I get into flow, it’s like, hours go by, and I forget to eat or drink, or go to the toilet, and then suddenly, I’m like, okay, I really, really need to go now. While I find, say, with my work, it’s more like, it’s just really, really great when you have to, you know, are in a session with somebody, and your kind of working together really well as a team, and you’re, you know, trying to figure out, okay, what would be most helpful for this person right now? And you know, kind of, how can you guide them through the issue that they’re having. So, I just find then you know, that time goes by so fast and, and, you know, you really aren’t really thinking of anything else in that moment.
Hayley: Do you ever use any of your art or that sort of more creative side in your therapy work?
Grainne: I’m not sure if I like, I don’t bring my art into it. But if somebody that I’m working with has a creative streak, or an interest themselves, then I’ll try and kind of bring that out, like if they’re, if it’s something that they’d find helpful, and then I always invite them to, you know, like, basically translate whatever we’re speaking to, into their own language, and that might be through a creative language that you know, that they’re doing.
Hayley: I spent a lot of my life telling myself, I wasn’t creative, because I can’t necessarily draw well. And it’s taken a long time for me to realise that creativity comes in so many different forms. I think in lots of ways. therapy work is very creative. You know, in the way we have to sort of think about things and structure things for clients.
Grainne: Yeah, for sure, like you’re constantly thinking on the spot. It’s not like, you know, so we do have these manualized therapies. But at the same time, when you’re thinking about how the person is in the room with you, and you’re thinking about, you know, how can I say, get them to understand this, you definitely need to be creative in that.
Hayley: So, do you find that that sort of creative piece for you, is a big part of your own wellbeing?
Grainne: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And it’s actually, it’s interesting because I found that so like, I recently went down from working four days to three days specifically because I wanted to have more time to be creative, because I found that I just didn’t have that time when I was working four days in private practice. And, what I found recently, is say if I have a week or two away from drawing it like I said to my husband, like a few weeks ago, I feel like almost like my soul starts to die. Like it’s started to be something that I really see is like this is really important to me. I just feel that it’s so nourishing to get that time being creative. And what’s really lovely as well as that, like, once you spend the time focusing on it, then it’s almost like, other ideas grow from that. And so, it just, it feels really good.
Hayley: Oh, that’s beautiful. So, it really is an important part of who you are. Yeah. So, when you when you started out as a new practitioner, what do you think would have been helpful for you to hear when you were starting?
Grainne: Yeah. I think everybody’s training in psychology is, can be very, very intense. And it certainly was for me, like with the doctorate, because you’re wearing so many hats. You’re wearing your research hat, you’re attending lectures, trying to get a crash course, and learning to be a therapist, and then you’re also seeing patients as well. And I think I’d just say, take your time, and give yourself the time to learn everything. And don’t expect yourself to know everything right away and to get it.
Hayley: Yeah, that’s the thing people forget sometimes don’t they. You’re in training, which means you don’t know what you’re doing that’s why you’re in training. And it’s okay to not know and sort of learn as you go. Because you did your, you did all of your training over in the UK.
Grainne: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. So, I did my undergraduate psychology degree in London. And then I did two years of work as a research assistant on a cannabis project, which gave me a really, really bad sense of how easy it is to recruit to studies because when you’re recruiting for a study, and you’re getting people, you’re saying to people, you can smoke cannabis, and then we’ll do some psychology tests on you, people really want it.
Hayley: Everyone else is like, why can’t I get anyone to come and do my study?
Grainne: Yeah. So, I was like, oh, it’s so easy to recruit for studies like research will be a piece of cake.
Hayley: An then you found out it’s absolutely not. It’s really hard to recruit people.
Grainne: Yeah, apparently, it’s harder when you’re not saying that you’re paying people to smoke an illicit drug.
Hayley: Funny that! So, thinking about us, as human beings, and practitioners. How important do you think it is that we are willing to tolerate the discomfort that comes up when we connect to the parts of ourselves that perhaps we don’t like, or we might feel ashamed of both as a practitioner, and as a human being? And how does your connection with your art assist you with that if it does?
Grainne: So, I think, well, I think it’s really important to connect with that. Because I think one of the things that you really notice is that say, when you try and ignore it, it doesn’t go away. And often, it might even get a bit bigger, because we’re reinforcing it by ignoring it or pushing it away. Even though we don’t mean to. Like that’s, we have tricky brains. And, unfortunately, that’s how our tricky brains work. So, I think it is really, really important just to, you know, to notice them and sort of validate them as well. And if we can, if you know, if it feels okay to make room for it. And, you know, there might even be some wisdom within, you know, so I think it’s really helpful to be curious and to see like, what are, you know, what’s it trying to tell me? Yeah. And, you know, is there anything that I can learn from this? Yeah. But then I guess that that’s where say, compassion can be really helpful. Because, you know, if we’re able to kind of meet those feelings with compassion that can help us a lot more with allowing those feelings to be there. Yeah, well, if we, if we criticise ourselves for having them, then we’re a lot more likely to, to want to push that away. Because we’re thinking like, oh, well, if I feel bad, then I thought, well, I shouldn’t be feeling bad, so.
Hayley: So true, isn’t it. I mean connecting with our dark side is challenging, it’s difficult. If we can bring compassion to it, it doesn’t make it easy, but it can make it easier.
Grainne: Exactly. It’s not like it’ll make it go away.
Hayley: No! We need magic for that.
Grainne: I think sometimes we can accidentally make deals we can say, okay, well, if I do this, I promise you’re going to go away then. Right? I let you be here but like, but then you’ll go after, right?
Hayley: Na, it’s like no, that’s not gonna happen. And with your art, when you’re sort of drawing a comic over time when you’ve sort of done your Mind Committee before you moved on to new projects, which we’ll talk about a little bit later. Have you found that that art has kind of assisted you to connect with those parts of yourself? You actually do get to sort of be in touch with them?
Grainne: Yeah, definitely I find that, say, well, I find with my, my critic, I’m really, you know, have come to notice over the years, my critic can be very strong and very dominant and still is. So, I find that one a bit trickier. But you know, I guess like, in my comic, he’s kind of like, it’s a ‘he’ and it’s a, kind of a smallish pointy blue figure. And it’s definitely been really helpful in terms of getting to notice when he’s around. I found it easier with worry. So, in my comic, I’ve drawn worry as this kind of little purple, kind of he’s a little bit chubby, little kind of monster. And I find that I’m kind of seeing him as more like kind of sweet.
Hayley: You’re befriending your worry.
Grainne: Yeah exactly. Yeah. And, you know, just I can see that, you know, he’s really trying to help. And it’s just something he doesn’t often know the right way of helping. So, I find that that’s like, that’s been really helpful as well with, you know, that like changing that view, and kind of, we just want to give him a hug.
Hayley: Aww that’s so lovely. It’s like come here worry, let me give you a hug.
Grainne: Yeah, because my critic is pointy, so don’t really want to hug him.
Hayley: You don’t want to hug from him, fair call. But it’s interesting, isn’t it? Because that part of you is suffering. That part of you that is worrying and the critic. And over time, I guess maybe that will change
Grainne: Exactly. It’s just trickier.
Hayley: In terms of change in terms of wanting to get closer to it. But it is trickier. I mean, the parts of ourselves that are harsh, or that we’re ashamed of, or we don’t like for some reason are absolutely harder to get close to aren’t they. I mean, why would you? It’s almost like, why would you invite people you really don’t like to a party. You know, it’s like, I don’t want to invite you, but they’re coming along anyway. We don’t get to stop that.
Grainne: Exactly. Like they’re very, very insistent that they’re going to join me in the different things that I do.
Hayley: I was thinking from like an ACT perspective, the comic, it’s almost like a diffusion exercise, isn’t it? You can draw your worry, you can draw the critic and kind of separate yourself a little bit.
Grainne: Exactly. Yeah, and it was, I think it was actually more narrative therapy, when I’d first heard about that idea. And, I really loved it, And yeah.
Hayley: I recently had the pleasure of you bringing my mind to life with your brilliant art.
Grainne: Well, thank you for being the very brave first volunteer.
Hayley: Yeah, it was such a great project to be a part of. So fascinating, too, and I think I could have given you many, many more characters as well. But sort of curbed it a little bit so it didn’t become too big. But it’s so fascinating to really stop and think, yeah, this part of me and that part of me and you know, multiple selves’ piece we talk about in Compassion Focus Therapy, is really acknowledging that we are multiple selves. But taking each individual part and sort of looking and going, okay, well, what is this like for me, when this part shows up how am I going to recognise it? So, I really loved that and enjoyed being a part of that project. So, could you tell us about how that idea was born to sort of move it from The Mind Committee to The Mind Committees and what you’re doing with that?
Grainne: Yeah. Well, so, after I started drawing The Mind Committee, I thought it would be really cool to, for it to, you know, I guess, to get more people involved in it. And I was always kind of curious as to say, what other people’s parts of their minds looked like. Like kind of like their critics or their warriors. And so that was something that I’d had in mind for a while. But it was recently, a friend had sent me a message saying, “hey, I’ve got an idea for a new comic”. And he’d said, like, imagine say if they could, if your Mind Committee one day, visited another person’s mind. And then, you know, they assume that that person has it all together, but then when they visit the mind, then it’s quite chaotic. And so, in that process, I’d asked him, and I’d asked a couple of different friends if they could contribute parts of their minds, to be guest characters, like guest stars in that comic. So, I did that and then afterwards, I was thinking about, and I was like, oh well that was so fun. Working with my friends on that, so I thought well, why don’t actually just do it myself or I ask people, okay, would it be okay if I draw a portrait of your mind. And so that’s where it’s come from and my aim is to draw, at least, like I’m hoping for at least 20 different mind portraits, but maybe even more. Although I’m finding people have a lot of parts, so it just takes time. So ideally, I would like to be able to, like maybe display that in some place where people can go, and they can see that there’s all of these people that I’ve met that have bravely volunteered their minds and they can see, okay, well, these people even you know, they’re functioning and they’re doing well. But at the same time, they still have tricky brains, they still have a lot of, you know, a lot going on, they still have different parts to them that they find difficult at times. And so, you know, and that’s okay.
Hayley: I think that’s a really beautiful project, because there can be this thing, where people think, am I the only one that’s feeling like this? Am I the only one that’s struggling with this? And I think particularly, you know, as helping professionals, there can be this kind of myth, that somehow, we’ve got it all together. And that we’re okay and that we can cope with everything. And that even if we do get anxious, well, we know have to deal with it because we’re, you know, helping professionals with therapists, we know how to manage anxiety. I think that can be really damaging. Because, you know, fundamentally, we are human beings. And we choose the helping professions as the job that we do, the work that we do. And when people can see, oh, you get caught up in that stuff with your mind, oh you’ve got a critic that kind of shows up really easily, oh you get anxious about that, or, oh your mood can get really low and you can feel depressed, oh okay. Well, I thought I was the only one or, you know, I didn’t think this was something that I would still be dealing with if I’ve learnt how to be a therapist or something like that. So, I think it’s a really, really valuable project. And I hope that you get lots of people come on board to do it, because it’s also, as somebody who has been a part of that project, it’s really fun and your arts fantastic.
Grainne: Thank you.
Hayley: Like I can remember saying to you, you know, this is kind of what I think this part would, you know, look like if we were making it a character. And you’d send me this picture, I’d be like, oh my gosh, that’s it. You’ve nailed it.
Grainne: Well, you provided an excellent description.
Hayley: It’s absolutely brilliant. So yeah, I think we can, we’ll talk later about how people can perhaps get in touch with you. And I would highly encourage anybody that is even slightly interested in doing that to jump on board and have a portrait of their mind done because it’s lovely. Really lovely.
Grainne: If anybody’s interested, I’m happy to draw their minds. And I know, that’s not something you say to people every day.
Hayley: It’s like, hello, would you like me to draw your mind? We get that thing can’t we, some people think, you know, psychologists, we must be mind reader’s, you’re a mind drawer. You go next level, I don’t just read your mind, but I draw it as well. I’ll just share with the listeners as well, because normally when I am interviewing people, they’re either in a different state or a different country and we’re on Zoom. But we’re really fortunate today that, oh actually, this evening, because it’s a Saturday evening in Australia here, when we’re recording this. That Grainne and I are actually together in the room. So, it’s the first time we’ve done that, so it’s actually really lovely. Sitting here sharing the mic. So, let’s think now about what might be one piece of advice that you would share with our listeners.
Grainne: So, one piece of advice, I think, for me would be to say, to never stop being curious about what brings you joy. And, then you know, if you can, if it’s possible to maybe invite that into your life, if it’s something that brought joy from your childhood or you know, just even something that you’ve discovered recently, just to you know, to try to make space for it if you can. Because I just find that it can be so valuable, to be able to connect with that and to really notice it as well in terms of notice how you’re feeling when you’re engaging with it. Because I think it can really kind of show you okay, this is you know, this is something that nourishes me and that helps me, and I guess sometimes what we might do is we might know that in the moment but then we maybe get distracted. Go bash our lives you know, get caught up in our busy lives, our lives are understandably really busy as well. And then we might just forget that that really is something that’s helpful to us. So, yeah, that’s what I say. It’s just because I’ve noticed it recently with reconnecting with my art. It’s yeah, I think just going forward, I feel like I don’t think I want to have long periods like I’ve had without regularly engaging in that creativity.
Hayley: I’ve thought that’s beautiful because the work we do can be really challenging. Yeah. It can be really tough and having something outside of work that kind of counterbalances all that is a really good idea.
Grainne: Yeah, exactly.
Hayley: And curiosity, I like that. Because maybe people don’t know what that is yet.
Grainne: Exactly and that’s totally okay.
Hayley: Yeah, so sort of paying attention to yourself and noticing. I like what you said before about notice how you feel when you’re doing something when you’re engaging in something. Is this something that would be helpful if I actually brought this into a more regular practice for myself?
Grainne: Yeah, exactly. And obviously, you know, not in a way where it would end up becoming a stress. If you felt like, oh I should be doing this, but just, you know, noticing, okay, well, what is it that I would like to do, that I’m drawn to?
Hayley: It’s interesting when you talk about your art, and you really loved art when you were little. And then when you got to high school, it was all about your art being graded and then it wasn’t fun anymore. So, you let it go, and now your kind of bringing it back on your own terms. You’re doing this because of the pleasure and the joy that it brings me.
Grainne: Yeah, exactly. Although, like, that’s not to say, I still get, say, critical of my art, or there’s still ups and downs of that. So, it’s not, you know, absolutely perfect. But it still is, like, it’s something that I really notice. It’s, you know, it’s a very rewarding thing to do. So, and I think I’m learning as well to, you know, try and not, because I guess I can so easily get you know, link my worth to what I’m creating. Because I think you do get a bit of a dopamine rush when you create something and you’re like, wow, this is amazing I’m awesome. And then, you know, after a few days, and it’s like, it’s there and that’s it but yeah, just like, that’s a helpful lesson in itself, that um, I’m able to take a step back and just then you know, think about, okay, what would I like to do next?
Hayley: Not put too much pressure on yourself. Exactly, keep an eye on the little spiky blue guy. Because he’s gonna show up, right?
Grainne: Yep, he will.
Hayley: So, if you could meet yourself 20 years from now, what do you think your future self would say to you?
Grainne: So, I think one thing that I notice is that my little spiky blue guy, the critic, can be very critical of my past self. So, you know, sometimes I’ll, you know, think about a certain like, a memory and then my critic will be like, why did you do that? So, what I would hope is, say, if I were to have a conversation with my future self, that I would hope that she would have learned to be less critical about her past selves. And that maybe, you know, I guess that maybe her compassionate side might be stronger in that way. And so, I don’t know, if I’d really even be looking for advice from her, but you know, I think what I would hope that you would be able to say is just like is, maybe say you’re doing okay, keep going. And, you know, it’ll be okay like, I trust that you’re going to figure this out.
Hayley: It’s beautiful. You’re going okay, keep going and trust that you’re going to figure it out. That’s really beautiful.
Grainne: I think that would be nice if I was able to just to see myself as a human who’s trying her best.
Hayley: So, I wonder, is that something you can just say for yourself as you go along? I’m going okay, I’m gonna keep going and I’m going to trust that I’m going to figure it out. Because I think that’s all that we are doing, isn’t it? Yeah, we’re just figuring it out, as we go along.
Grainne: We haven’t been given any manuals.
Hayley: I think that’s one of the things I, you know, as I’ve gone through my life, I’m like, yeah, didn’t always do it the best way and, but I always learned something from it. And I’m doing the best I can. I think, you know, I’ve said it many times. And, you know, we do the best we can under the circumstances we’re in, with the knowledge and the skills that we’ve got
Grainne: Exactly, yeah.
Hayley: And that’s the best that we can do, you know.
Grainne: That’s exactly it. It’s just like we’re not fortune tellers or mind readers, contrary to popular belief. So, you know, we only have that information, in that moment.
Hayley: Well, maybe we can sit with, with our 20 years from now selves or with ourselves. 20 years from now. A bit of a tongue twister and, have another conversation in 20 years.
Grainne: Yeah, that would be lovely.
Hayley: So finally, if people want to find out more about you, or get in touch, where can they find you and engage with you and your work?
Grainne: So, at the moment, the two main ways of viewing my work, and also getting in touch is through my Instagram pages. So, there is The Mind Committee, which is the comic, and then The Mind Committees, which is portraits of the mind project. So those are the two main ways at the moment.
Hayley: And if somebody was interested in being a part of that project, just briefly, what would be involved? What would they need to kind of do, to be involved with that?
Grainne: So, well, I guess, first of all, to be willing. And I guess, what I often kind of suggest to people is, say, like, I guess once they’ve gotten in touch with me, and they’ve let me know that they’re interested, then, you know, it’s not something that we’ll do right away or anything like that. But just like spending some time themselves reflecting on their own minds and noticing I guess, what different parts are around for them, which are the most prominent ones and then, you know, to start thinking, okay well, what would they look like? Because that will help us with drawing that portrait, and that family portrait of those different parts. But you know, I don’t rush people along with it or anything like that. It’s just something that, like, it’s more kind of take your time with it. And so like, if you did get in touch with me, it’s not like I’d be expecting your mind right away.
Hayley: Yeah, I think, you know, from my experience, it was a very gentle process. Very easy to engage in and again, I’ve said it for, and I’m gonna say it again, if anybody is wanting to do that, I would really encourage them to be a part of that. Because it’s a really, really lovely project. And I think ultimately, I mean, if they go to your Instagram, they’ll see that there are a small number already there. I think if that can become something where there are, you know, a large number of those and we can all see that everybody has a tricky mind, and it’s just such a beautiful way to show that. I think it’s a really great project to get behind.
Grainne: Thanks, Hayley.
Hayley: Yeah, so I wish you all the best with that. So, thank you for joining me, coming and spending time with me and being the first in person interviewee
Grainne: Well, I’m honoured. Thank you.
Hayley: It’s been a real pleasure and I wish you all the best and thank you again.
Grainne: You take care, Hayley.
Hayley: Thank you. Bye.
Thank you for sharing this time with me today. I hope your time here was helpful and supportive. If there has been something in this episode that you have found helpful, I invite you to share it with another person you think might benefit. I’d also love it if you’d like to leave a review wherever you tune in. Reviews really helped to increase awareness of podcasts, meaning I can spread helpful information more widely. All reviews are welcome and much appreciated. As I know they take time out of your day. If you’d like to be notified when the next episode airs, please use the link in the show notes to join my mailing list. Music and editing by Nyssa Ray. Thanks Nyssa. I wish you all well in your relationship with yourself. And may you go well and go gently.
You can find Grainne on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/themindcommittee/?hl=en
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This transcript may not be an exact representation of the audio
