Episode #21 Cultivating Kindness with Dr. Elaine Beaumont

Hi, this is Welcome to Self ™ Caring for the Human in the Therapist Chair, and I’m your host, Dr. Hayley D Quinn, fellow human, clinical psychologist, supervisor and trainer. Welcome to Self ™ is a place where you can come and learn ways to elevate your own care and compassion. A place to rest, be soothed, and at times maybe gently challenged to think about yourself and your practice. A place to remember that you are human first, choose the helping profession is just one of the roles in your life. My aim is that this is a place of soothing, comfort, nourishment, growth and nurture. A place where you can also welcome your self.

Hayley:

Hi, and welcome to another episode. I’d like to take a moment to thank Victoria for her lovely feedback. Victoria said

“Thank you Angelo and Hayley for this episode. I found it very grounding. I particularly liked the call to compassionate action by thinking about my 80 year old self, gently powerful”.

Thanks Victoria. It really means a lot to me when you take time to send through feedback. I’m excited to announce my next guest, Dr. Elaine Beaumont. Elaine is a psychotherapist specialising in cognitive behavioural therapy, compassion focus therapy, and EMDR. She’s a lecturer at the University of Salford where her research explores the impact compassionate mind training, and compassion focus therapy has in healthcare, educational and clinical settings. Elaine provides workshops regarding mental health, compassion and wellbeing for a variety of organisations, and her research has been presented worldwide. Elaine is co-author of the bestselling books, The Kindness Workbook – Creative and Compassionate Ways to Boost Your Well-Being and The Compassionate Mind Workbook – A Step by Step Guide to Developing Your Compassionate Self. And she is co-author of the Self Compassion app. I first met Elaine at the compassionate mind foundation conference in London in 2018. And she stays in my mind that as one of the beautiful humans I’ve met along the way. She is a wonderfully compassionate human being. And as you’ll hear, has been doing compassionate work since she was a teenager. It is my pleasure to welcome Elaine to the podcast.

Hayley:

Hi, Elaine, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This is really exciting. And obviously it’s evening for me here and it’s morning for you in the UK. And you were just saying before it’s a lovely lovely sunny day and what they’re expecting to be the hottest day of the year so far. So that’s always exciting in England, isn’t it?

Elaine:

It is if you’re in the north of England. Yeah, nice to see the sunshine. Lovely to spend time with you, Hayley, thanks for for inviting me on to the podcast.

Hayley:

Oh, my absolute pleasure. So do you want to start by telling us a little bit about yourself what it was that drew you to psychology and teaching?

Elaine:

Yeah, well, I suppose like most people in our profession, we’ve probably always been interested in people. So even from a young age from being 14, 15 I was always involved in a lot of kind of community work and youth work in Salford which is a city just outside Manchester, I know you know, it here we bought some of the listeners might not know it’s quite kind of a quite a poor area in parts. But I was always interested in kind of community work. When I was 17, 18 and went to Kenya a little village in, called Kisumu just outside or just within Kenya. And working in a community that was about the time of sort of Live Aid and as part of a school project, we raise money to kind of take over and help people in the community there. And did a lot of youth work, was involved in something called kind of Camp project Wales in the UK, in my early 20s, my late teens, taking kind of children camping from families that would kind of struggle to afford to take the kids away. So that’s kind of a little bit of the background of I just really loved that work. And I loved seeing the difference that it made. Teaching wise, I just, I’ve always loved to learn, I’ve always had kind of a passion to learn myself. And I really, really love kind of working with the students at the university, and seeing their kind of hunger and enthusiasm, and me learning from them as well. So, yeah, I have a really love teaching. I started off teaching a level psychology. And now as you know, I teach at the University of Salford. So I teach on different programs I teach um, I run a compassion focus therapy module, which I kind of set up about three years ago, which took a bit of time to set up. But I love that module. That’s my kind of passion. But I teach on the Cognitive Behavioural Therapy program, so the kind of master’s program that we have, and also kind of I do some teaching on set about self-care and compassionate mind training for the student nurses and midwives. So yeah, it’s now sort of varied.

Hayley:

I mean, this has been part of your life for a long time, hasn’t it, like, say, from very early in your life. And then it sounds like you’ve really got this nice diversity. And I often talk with supervisees, about, you know, that that can be really helpful in our work can’t it, when we have diversity of practice?

Elaine:

Yeah. I’ve got quite a nice balance when, you know, it was kind of thinking about this before I came on to the podcast this morning. Actually, what a nice balance I have in that I teach at the university two days a week. I have a client work as well, a couple of days a week, but I also do workshops, for charities, and I’m doing a lot of workshops for the NHS at the moment. So I’m helping people with burnout and stress, you know what’s it’s been like over here. And doing bits for the compassionate mind foundation as well. So it’s nice, it’s not just a full time therapist or full time lecturer. So it is really quite a nice balance.

Hayley:

And what do you think is that is helpful about that, in terms of kind of your career and longevity of career?

Elaine:

Probably the fact that there is more of a balance these days, that I’m lucky that I’m in a position where, you know, I can choose the projects that I want to work on the work that I want to do. And actually, if I was a full time lecturer, I don’t think I’d kind of have as much time to do some of the research and the writing maybe that I do if it was a full time therapist, maybe the same. So the fact that it’s all different, and it kind of re-energises me in different ways. So the teaching is great, but there’s kind of the passion from the, from the students. And that’s a two way process, from the therapists, from the client work. A lot of my work focuses on trauma. And I think if that was full time, that would be potentially tricky. I’m just going to shut down my emails, Hayley, and then we won’t get that noise again. I just kept my sorry, I kept my email on just in case I couldn’t get through. So I’ve just shut that down now, so we won’t get interruption.

Hayley:

No problem. No problem. So yeah, lots of diversity, that balance like you say, it gives you the opportunity to do all the different things that you like. And I love how you say, you know, you get that kind of vitality and energy off your students as well. It’s like a two way thing, isn’t it? They learn from you, you learn from them. Yeah, in terms of diversity of practice. It’s certainly what keeps me energised and enjoying my work more as well. Yeah, yeah. So you recently co-authored the kindness workbook with Dr. Mary Welford.

Elaine:

Yes.

Hayley:

What inspired you to write that particular book? And what did you enjoy most about that process?

Elaine:

Well, I think you know, I love a workbook Hayley. I suppose one of the things that was important for me was and what I wanted to write about something, some of the things that I wish I’d have known when when I was younger. So kind of growing up, you know, in Salford, just outside Manchester. In the school, they kind of talked a lot about goals. What are your short term goals? What are your long term goals? What do you want to be? What do you want to do? And and I love the idea of goals and use goals in therapy in some cases, but there’s this idea as well that actually if people have a setback, then it can kind of ignite self criticism and maybe feelings of guilt or shame. And I remember kind of learning about values. And thinking about, oh I wish I’d known this as a child, you know, that kind of values are more of a compass for our life, there’s no end point, you know, it’s kind of kind of on a journey. And so it was things like that, that I wanted to kind of put in the book. I also, from my days of teaching a level psychology, I know with the students, they kind of learn more from potentially seeing case studies and characters and examples, and worksheets, so and then the creative side. So thinking about how we can cement learning that can help us boost wellbeing by using mind maps and vision boards and, you know, tapping into does music help us, does that help us, does letter writing help us? And I think one of the things kind of thinking about compassion focus therapy, compassionate mind training. I think it’s really, really creative. And I don’t think it always gets the credit for that. So I wanted to put a lot of that in and talk about kind of, you know, creative ideas, but how we can use them in a compassionate way. So the CFT creative side, I think the method acting brilliant, mindfulness even things like, you know, had somebody have taught me about how to focus on or think about body posture, and facial expression, and voice tone, all kind of quite simple, and, potentially to do and, and to encourage with other people, but really, really creative. You know, and we’d love the idea of, and, you know, can speak for Mary here as well that, you know, working with Phoebe to create the illustrations, we really wanted to do that to make it come alive. So it sets it apart. So we’ve got the case studies, we’ve got the examples, then we’ve got the blank worksheets, but we’ve got all of the different characters. So one of the most enjoyable things apart from kind of me producing the book was kind of sending Phoebe details about, you know, kind of ideas for the illustrations, and honestly, Hayley within 24 hours, probably even before that, she’d send you a sketch back and say, oh, do you mean something like this? So we’ve give her the idea of the character for examples of the kindness box, or looking even looking at the scrolls for the scripts, and she’d send something back and she just got it. And the fact that she was kind of a young person herself, it just was fun. It just made, you know, that part of writing the book really fun. So I think Mary and I are really pleased, because, you know, we wanted to initially we were wanting to try and write something for young people. But actually, you know, the feedback that we’ve had, has been that it’s helping people of all ages.

Hayley:

Yeah absolutely and I think you’re saying you know about having fun, that’s an important part of your career as well. Isn’t it having things that actually you feel like you can engage in that are fun?

Elaine:

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And having that mix, so it’s like a balanced isn’t it, so if you want to do in the academic side, but also kind of saying yes to things that give you the fun factor I guess.

Hayley:

So and I know this is a big a big question but you know, given that we’re talking about the kindness workbook, how do you think we can bring more kindness both to ourselves and others?

Elaine:

Oh, it’s funny, because this, this is really interesting, because, of course, I do all of these workshops. And one of the things that I talk about is, you know, what does acts of kindness mean to you? And for most people, you may have had the same Hayley, most people when you ask will say, doing a good deed for somebody sending a nice text or a bunch of flowers or you know, something for other people? Yeah. Which is great. All of those, of course, are important. But we also want to include ourselves on that list. So what can I do for me today that’s kind or what can I do for me this week? If I can’t think of something for that day, what can I do this week, that’s kind. And in the kindness workbook, we’ve kind of got the kindness mnemonic. So I think that’s quite a good starting point, because it gives us an outline of what kindness means. So in all of the workshops I’ve noticed over the years, I would say over 90% of people will talk about kindness for somebody else, but what the kindness mnemonic does is it helps us to put ourself on the list as well. So it starts with the letter K, obviously. And the K stands for keep learning and trying new experiences. So that puts ourself on the map. So what can I do for me, that’s kind that keeps me learning. And during the first lockdown, when everything kind of started opening up in the UK, we weren’t able to go abroad. So me and my partner would kind of think about where could we go at home and what things could we do. And I kind of have the kindness mnemonic in mind, you know, there’s things like interacting and nurturing, you know, etc. But the keep learning one, we’re kind of stuck with me, because often my keep learning, has been about kind of academic stuff, and writing. But I was thinking I want to do things fun. So we kind of tried things like I had a archery lesson, which I was quite good at, I was okay. And kind of try axe throwing, I’m not going to do that, again.

Hayley:

If you’re not good at that perhaps don’t be throwing axes.

Elaine:

Stayed in a kind of South African roundhouse, although near a beach in Norfolk, stayed in a windmill, went glamping, which, you know, was a step up from camping. So that was quite good. And then in the West Midlands, we opened a safari park, a safari lodge. So recently, kind of we went there, and stayed in an elephant lodge because I like elephants, so you know, learning different things about the different animals and different skills. So yeah, I think thinking about kindness to others is really important. But what can we kind of do to keep, to help ourselves, keep learning and be kind?

Hayley:

I think as helping professionals, it’s so important, isn’t it? We are so good at helping others. You know, it was sort of naturally inclined to do that. Hence, we all end up here. That’s right, putting ourselves on the list. What would you like for the listeners just to kind of read through what the each of the letters stands for in the kindness mnemonic?

Elaine:

Yes, I’ll just get the book. Okay, so the, so the K, I mean, it’s, it’s all of the ingredients that we think make up kindness. And so we’re in the workbook, we’ve got the kind of the kindness mnemonic and and Phoebe’s done a great picture with like a cauldron. Like with all the, it’s almost like all the recipe in there in the cauldron. But then there’s a couple of worksheets. But so the the keep learning is kind of, you know, it might be reading a book, it might be following a nature trail, it could be doing a crossword, playing it, learning a musical instrument, you know, and then the next one, the I is interact. So interacting and connecting. So sometimes if we’re feeling that our well being needs a bit of a boost, kind of reaching out, potentially maybe joining a team or reaching out to family or friends, or playing a game where there’s other people involved. And then we’ve got notice, so asking for help when you need it, and noticing when somebody you care about needs help or talking to friends. And the D stands for decision making. So making plans for your own future, plans that have your own best interests at heart. And then the N, we’ve got nurture. So thinking about, actually, how can I nurture me, how can I show myself kindness today? Is it painting? Is it going from mindful walk? Is it just writing about how I feel? Is it sitting in silence, exercise? You know, going for a walk, trying a fitness app, the usual things, taking a dog for a walk, self care, you know, thinking about maybe healthy habits or sleeping habits or treating yourself, buy yourself some flowers. And then the final S is support in others. So maybe volunteering to help or giving something to charity or something simple, like giving somebody a compliment. So yeah, it took us a while to decide on those but hopefully, they all kind of include kindness ingredients.

Hayley:

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And of course, the kindness book isn’t the only book you’ve written. You teach and research about compassion. And you’ve co-authored the compassionate mind workbook with Dr. Chris Ions, what’s been your own biggest learning through that?

Elaine:

It’s a tricky one this, because there’s been so many things to think about. But I suppose the first thing that came to mind was many years ago, probably going back to 2014, 2015, I was asked to teach student nurses, thinking about the teaching and research part of that question about self care. And, and kind of agreed to do it. And I had a kind of a, an uhh huh moment to quote Oprah Winfrey, because it was talking about stress and burnout. And I had a really open discussion with that class of student nurses, about the symptoms and about self criticism, so a lot of the compassionate mind stuff. And a lot of the class was saying that actually, I feel like that now. And they were in the final year as student nurses. And so I kind of remember thinking God, this is a brilliant discussion to have with them. But what a shame that they’ve not started employ, full time employment yet, yet, they’re experiencing these things, who are comparing themselves unfavourably to their peers, which happens a lot in counselling professions as well. So I’m thinking about Paul’s definition of compassion. If we think about, it’s a sensitivity to suffering in self and others, with a commitment to try and, a commitment to try and alleviate and prevent it. But kind of then was aware that these people were suffering, they were struggling, they were being tough. So it kind of made me want to do something about it. So I’ve created a couple of different programs, where students were invited to attend compassionate mind training. So I wrote a couple of papers, just on here’s an outline of how we can use compassionate mind training with nurses and midwives and therapists. And then it kind of made me think even more about it. So my PhD focused on then moved on to thinking about correlational studies, is this just happening with this cohort or is this happening across other programs. So as part of a team, we looked at stress, burnout, self criticism, wellbeing, professional quality of life and self compassion in a cohort of new nurses, midwives, and counsellors and psychotherapists. And they were all saying a similar story Hayley, that when they, if they had high levels of self compassion, the well being was, okay. If they had high levels of self criticism, then the symptoms of stress, they were also having symptoms of burnout. And it just made me think about people more in the helping professions. And this is what’s great about the work that you’re doing, we face a set of unique challenges don’t we, that other professions don’t, because when were students, my counselling students, for example, they might also work and be doing the counselling programs, perhaps part time, some of them and mature students, so they might have children, they have to have supervision and a placement, someone required to have therapy, that’s kind of unique challenges to people in the helping profession. So you know, I think that was kind of one of the biggest learnings was actually, you know, our profession is so different to all those, that we are more important that we kind of take the time to care for ourselves. And then kind of as a result of that, and thinking about Paul’s, you know, kind of, you know, the quote there that I read of Paul’s, then thinking about how can we do something about it, and that’s what I’ve been trying to do for the last few years really, with all the workshops and programs and everything.

Hayley:

And then also there’s this narrative that you know, you’re helping professionals, you’re caring people, you should be caring for others. And I think it takes the focus off the self. And you know, well, I need to be there for my clients and I should be doing this and I should be able to manage because I have these skills, and we can get quite disconnected from our humanity. Yeah. Or our humaneness? Yeah. Not so much our humanity but our humaneness. And then we can get into all sorts of trouble with that currently, you know, yeah, that stress, burnout, getting sick.

Elaine:

Yeah. And as well, I mean, I don’t know what it’s like, over in Australia, but, you know, with everything with with the NHS at the moment, you know, people covering having to cover shifts and do extra, you know, it is really, really difficult. And there’s a lot of people, sadly that are fantastic people that are leaving the profession. Even midwives that, you know, our midwives. So there is some, I’m doing a lot of teaching now about compassionate mind training with nurses, midwives, health visitors, and they just love it. And sometimes it’s nice, easy little wins. But sometimes it’s difficult when you work in those big organisations.

Hayley:

You just talked to us about the compassionate mind training. I’m just wondering, how do you think that cultivating a compassionate mind can assist us as helping professionals? I mean you don’t need to convince me.

Elaine:

You’re doing brilliant work doing this and doing this podcast, but I suppose in different ways, we’re both reaching out and focusing on the importance of self care. Sort of saying to people, you know, you matter, you’re important, it’s important to think about your needs. As human beings, we all get caught up in loops, we all worry. So, you know, cultivating our own compassionate mind can helps us when we maybe fall back into those links, when we criticise ourselves, where we make a mistake, or when we, you know, are struggling with, you know, life events that happened, that have happened, you know, so I think it’s really important. I think it’s, I think it’s essential, definitely.

Hayley:

And such a beautiful way for us to sort of connect when we can build that compassion itself, that we can turn down that volume on the self critic. Hey, you know,

Elaine:

Definitely. And saying that, when we’re when we’re doing client work, you know, we all get caught up in these loops. Yeah. You know, that’s not just you. That’s everybody. That’s part and parcel of being a human being, you know, that kind of normalising work, that we all have struggles, we all have mental health, you know, just like we all have physical health. And if one takes a knock, it can impact on the other. So yeah, it’s, it’s really important thinking about our own self care.

Hayley:

Fantastic. So you and Chris, since writing, the compassionate mind, workbook have gone on to develop an app, which I think is fantastic, and very techy. What was that process like? And what’s your vision for that?

Elaine:

Well, yeah, the apps call the Self Compassion app. And it’s honestly Hayley, one of the most rewarding things I’ve worked on. I mean, I’ve worked with Chris many times on different projects, we’ve done research, we’ve done lots of different things over the years together. But we both were really, really passionate about this idea of creating an app. And we were approached by a fabulous company called psychological technologies. And their expertise, obviously, is in technology. I mean, Chris is probably better at technology than me but you know my kind of knowledge of technology at the time was was pretty limited. But yeah, so you know, they contacted us and said, we want to make apps out of best selling books. And we love the compassionate mind workbook. So would you be willing to work with us, and we just like, were so excited, we jumped at the chance. And it opened up new ways of learning and discovery, I think for me, because it made me realise how much technology can be used to boost mood and to help people cultivate compassion. So kind of what was fun about the app was that, you know, we were able to see how you can kind of rate your heart, you know, measure your heart rate, how you can use your breathing and watch your heart rate come down, the body scan that we use in the app where you can change the facial expression on the face and on the body. You can put where on the body map, you know, where you feel your anxiety, and kind of log what your thoughts are. How you can use kind of soothing with them breathing and looking at kind of technology. And I just think the app just makes it, our work so accessible. Because for a lot of people, they wouldn’t necessarily pick up the book. You know, what to have a 28 day app that focuses on the principles I think is like, makes it much more accessible to potentially a lot of younger people, as well. And, you know, so yeah, we both really, really, really pleased with it really proud of it as well, because, I mean, it came out originally on iPhone. So it’s been an iPhone for a few months. And then the last couple of months, it’s now available on Android. And you know what, Hayley? We’ve had over 300 4.8 tut of 5 star reviews. You know, the fact that it’s helping people and you can kind of see that and that’s clinicians as well. You know people in the helping professions, as well as clients. So, yeah, we were actually a really good team because psychological technologies, they were the expert on the technology, Chris, and I just needed to write it. And just be mindful that what might work in a book might not work in an app. Yeah.

Hayley:

I love the way you say we just had to write it. Like that was not a big thing. That’s a pretty big deal alone.

Elaine:

Yeah, it was, but it was, you know, again, it was something new. So seeing the kind of the fun, and the learning about kind of technology, particularly for me was fun, because it was just like, it just made me see that there was other ways of helping people potentially. Yeah,

Hayley:

That’s fantastic. So you know, it’s a great app to recommend to clients, but also for helping professionals to use for themselves.

Elaine:

Definitely, yeah, we’ve been, we’ve kind of reaching out. I think we’ve had a couple of NHS Trusts that have kind of either potentially, I think ones agreed to have to fund it for the staff, which is great. You know, so on the way home from work, or, you know, at some point of the day, when they’ve got a bit of time to show themselves a bit of kindness, you know, it’s, you just click on the daily practice, whatever it is for that day. Yeah, so excited about it. It was hard, but so rewarding.

Hayley:

Well done. Congratulations.

Elaine:

Thank you.

Hayley:

So you’re as human as I am, and I’m as human as the next person. And we all struggle, don’t we, and we all have challenges. And, and even though this is our passion area alone, you know, you and I love this, I know, I have challenges with my own self care. And I wonder what your biggest challenges are, in terms of you taking care of yourself both within and outside of your work,

Elaine:

A couple of things got kind of going on at the moment, kind of going through the menopause, and, you know, kind of focusing on having a kind of hot sweat or, you know, concentration problem, and kind of just being mindful that that’s what’s going on and that’s normal and just slowing down. But one of the things that I learned many years ago was, I never give anything to clients that I don’t try myself. So I was teaching, it was a CBT class actually was teaching a class about CBT for depression. And we were talking about activity schedules, you know, those schedules where you write pleasure and mastery, and it’s on a scale of zero to 10. So you kind of logging everything that you’re doing during the day or that week. And you’re giving yourself a score from zero being low to 10 being high. The kinds of skill but is that sometimes in life, things are not always pleasurable, but we might be skillful. So writing a CV or applying for a new job, might not be much fun but it’s skill so you kind of thinking about actually kind of give myself a pat on the back for doing that. So I said to the students for homework, let’s all complete the activity schedule this week, every day, and see what we find. And so we what I found, personally, the students found a whole kind of heap of things as well. But what I found personally was, although all my scores were high, a lot of it was about work, teaching, researching, you know, reading up on different things. So you know, so even though it was really enjoyable, it was that kind of idea of hang on a minute, what about you know, and doing invoices and writing reports and doing things like that weekend, can I kind of cut back so the weekend is my day for kind of friends and doing things that kind of that are good for me that get me out more in nature potentially and you know, spending more times with family and friends so you know, that’s what I did. That was that was a few years ago kind of taking that time to sort of step back a little bit. But I also think that boundaries are important. So I’m in a position now where I’d set my day up as probably similar to you Hayley, set my day up so there’s time in the day for me so this is 10 o’clock in the morning UK time. So you know, whatever time we finish, I plan to go to the gym. Not that I love going to the gym. I just like how it makes me feel afterwards.

Hayley:

Do you want me to keep talking longer or?

Elaine:

Just you know if it wasn’t the gym, it might be doing something in the garden, especially if as it’s a lovely day today. And then I’ll come back and I’ll do I’ve got a couple of clients later on today. So, you know, it’s that balance I think so, and I feel like I’m at a position now where I’ve got that. It was tricky though Hayley over locked down. I don’t know what it was like for you but everything for me went online so my client work, my uni teaching, my NHS training, everything, you know, it was I did, I did a few workshops for some charities but anxiety UK was one of them, that all went online. And then as well as at the time, right in the the app, finishing off the kindness workbook, I was just kind of in this room. So I’m glad I’ve got my kind of routine back now. And I’ve got more, you know, kind of worked on the boundaries again, with my time.

Hayley:

It was quite varied over here. We were very fortunate here in Brisbane, in Queensland, we had some mini lock downs. But otherwise we kind of went really okay, we were closed all our borders and everything. But obviously Melbourne I think had some the longest lockdown in the world and, you know, awful time down there. And so lots of people went online over here, some people continued face to face. But it did shift people’s kind of routines and structure and boundaries. And I think you know, now we’re starting to move out of the pandemic. It’s important that people actually stop and look at this, isn’t it and actually think, hang on a minute, what, what has changed for me? And is it now helpful or harmful? Do I need to make some changes to it?

Elaine:

Yeah, I think that’s really important isn’t it that helpful or harmful? Does it boosts my mood? What does it give me? What does it take away? You know, and the kind of boundary issue I think could be really, really helpful for people. I was listening to one of the podcasts that you’ve done as well, where you were talking about kind of having to manage physical health as well. So kind of you know, that’s another balancing act, isn’t it?

Hayley:

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Taking care of the whole of us.

Elaine:

Yes. Yeah, definitely.

Hayley:

Definitely. So you talked about putting space in your day? And I certainly do that. And I certainly encourage other people to do that, where they can. And you talked about boundaries. But if there was anything else you would change about your work, what would it be and why?

Elaine

I think it’s a really good question. But at the moment, I think I’ve got a pretty good balance. I love that, one of the things that keeps my kind of hunger for the industry and passion is the balance. So like I said earlier, the teaching and working in the trying to make a difference in the city I grew up in, kind of client work, a lot of the work I do is trauma work. But also added some of the work for the people impacted by the Manchester bomb. And now having worked with some of the young people now kind of working with some of the people in the helping professions or the the of the people that were witness to that. So some of our students nurses were in the hospitals, kind of like, you know, at the time working as people were being taken to the hospital. But then kind of doing that, and then the workshops, it’s a nice mix. So you don’t, never get tired of anything. And nothing really kind of drags you down. And if there was, and then I have a chunk of time usually during the summer because my partner’s a teacher. So I try and kind of not book too much in over the summer or when it’s Christmas holidays. You know, so make sure that you know, we have you know, like at Easter we went to Barbados for a couple of weeks, just time to recharge and slow down. But yeah, I mean, I mean working doing the the workshops for charities, and I’ve done a couple of things. Now for the compassionate mind foundation as well. You know, it’s all really good, because you get something different, my week is different. It’s not the same every day,

Hayley:

Some good variety, having good boundaries, putting some nice breaks in place, and then having those breaks. I work eight weeks and then take two weeks off, work another eight weeks, take two weeks off, and then have a longer break at the Christmas because obviously Christmas over here, that’s our summer holiday. So I take my longer time at the end. And I’ve found that doing that over the last couple of years really, really helpful. And I also acknowledge my privilege and being able to do that. But I think even if it’s small breaks, looking at even if you don’t have capacity to take big breaks in your work. It’s like where can you even take small breaks? Can you put a little bit more space between your clients that kind of is so important for people to think about?

Elaine:

Yeah, definitely Hayley, I think that’s really important. I was saying to the students a couple of weeks ago that trying to have little wins. So if something’s stressful, so like when I’m teaching at Salford they can be all girls, so I might teach a CVT class in one building, Monday, last Monday, I was teaching nine till 12 in one building on the campus. And then I had another class at one o’clock on a different part of the campus, trying to fit lunch in, where, you know, with a 20 minute walk between campuses, but trying to make it a mindful walk, what can I see, what can I hear, what can I smell, what can I touch, and then sort of, you know, whenever I go to the toilet of a university, and I’m washing my hands, you know, that kind of mindfulness of being in the moment of, as I’m washing my hands, how that feels, but also maybe having a glance at myself and saying, doing well, you know, you’re doing the best you can right now, you know, you’ve got a great class that you’re going to be kind of working with in another half hour, you know, so that kind of a little bit of self talk, I suppose.

Hayley:

And that’s lovely I think those mindful moments are so important. Because we can’t always take chunks of time. So thinking about what’s the smallest thing I can do? Yeah. And I love that. I often be heard chatting to myself, saying oh it’s alright. And I think I think it’s really important, isn’t it? It’s like, giving yourself that that little pep talk or just actually acknowledging, you know, I did really well there or that’s kind of gone well, is important. Okay, and I think it can also bring up discomfort for people. It’s like, Oh, you shouldn’t be focusing on yourself and you shouldn’t be, you know, what’s the old saying blowing your own trumpet? It’s like, if you’ve got a a trumpet why would you not blow it like blow your trumpet.

Elaine:

Yeah, think about elite sports personalities. They do don’t they, they have that kind of confidence in the physical ability. And I’m going to be such and such a body, and I’m going to win and, you know, I’m the best, you know, Christiano Ronaldo, you know, would often say, you know, and not be afraid to say he’s the best footballer or you know, even though people might disagree? You know, so we do that kind of thinking about sports men and women, but often don’t kind of remind ourselves to give ourselves a pat on the back. Because we think, particularly you know, being kind of British, but, you know, so it’s almost like, a culture thing, potentially. You know, we don’t we don’t do that.

Hayley:

Yeah, I think moving to Australia helped me with that a little bit more. Yeah. But it is important. And I think sitting with the discomfort and practising doing these things for ourselves, can be really, really helpful.

Elaine:

Yeah, definitely. And sometimes, if I’m feeling the discomfort, and I just kind of put my hands on my chest, you know, and what we’re noticing, what is this? Oh, that’s what it is. Okay. That’s understandable, because of x, y, and z. And then you know, and that’s, you know, just just taking a moment to do something like that. I think that pause and just how just to acknowledge

Hayley:

Yeah absolutely. So if there were one piece of advice, what would that be for our listeners?

Elaine:

I guess it’s something that we’ve just been touching on, kind of taking time to check in with yourself, remind yourself of three good things that you might have done that day, or three things you’re grateful for, or three things you want to do for yourself? Maybe, you know, and one of the things that was lovely to see actually with the app is they are asked those similar questions. So we talk about gratitude. For every day, we we ask, you know, what would make today a good day, you know, getting you to think about yourself. And with the people that we did the research with, which was staff and students at Salford, actually, that was one of the things that they really enjoyed. So even when things were a bit tricky, it made them just kind of take a pause and step back and think so it could either be gratitude, you know, so, spending time with somebody, you know, I’m grateful I’ve got chance to spend time with you today. In might be three things I want to do for me today, just sitting in silence or just reminding myself about, you know, three good things that I’ve done, how I’ve made, potentially made a difference. Yeah. Yeah, that kind of check in, I guess.

Hayley:

Yeah, slowing it down. And gosh, I mean, you know, with you with the work that you do, and the books you’ve written and the app that you’ve created, you’ve absolutely made a difference in the world alone. I mean, it’s incredible. Incredible.

Elaine:

Thank you. Yeah, I’ve been We’ve been lucky over the years I’ve worked with some, some great people and some great teams. So yeah, it’s, that’s another thing I like I like collaboration. You learn things from other people.

Hayley:

So if you could meet your 80 year old self, what do you think your future self would say to you?

Elaine:

I absolutely love this question. I don’t think I’ve ever been asked this anything like this before. So I love it. I think my 80 year old self would say you’re leaving a whisper in history.

Hayley:

Oh, that’s made me teary. Wow, that’s beautiful and you are!

Elaine:

I love that. You know, we’re here and we’re gone. You know, but we’ve we all leave a whisper in history, you know, whether it’s through our work, through children. We leave that.

Hayley:

You know, yeah, I mean, gosh, what a legacy you’re leaving with the work that you’re doing. It’s, it’s really beautiful.

Elaine:

You to Hayley, you know, you’re doing fantastic work and making a big difference. So and, you know, I think that’s what being so passionate about CFT and compassionate mind training does it helps us to kind of think about other people and how we can make a difference. And yeah, a whisper in history.

Hayley:

That’s so beautiful. So can you tell us about any current projects, or research or any new books or any exciting apps or anything else you’re currently working on, who knows what you’re doing next!

Elaine:

Well, Chris, and I are kind of working on the write up for the research and then potentially going to do a bigger trial, hopefully, with the app because we’ve tested it with students and staff. So we’re almost finished, the qualitative aspects. And we’ve gotten a second paper, which is be the quantitative side. And then we’re going to look at, you know, kind of, can we get this and do another research project, potentially. So we’re definitely doing that. I’m in the middle of writing a couple of chapters, about compassionate mind training for a book that’s about working with people who’ve experienced domestic abuse. So kind of one book to help people that work in that field, so potentially helping students. So how can we help people cultivate a compassionate mind that have experienced domestic abuse? But a second chapter potentially looking at self care. You know, so when we’re working with trauma populations, or with that population, that, you know, how do I then take care of me? What can I do? So that’s what I’m currently working on.

Hayley:

Wow lovely. I’m actually doing a workshop in November with Dr. Lisa McLean. She just did her PhD in CFT for survivors of childhood sexual abuse, and we’re doing a two day workshop. One is teaching therapists how to use CFT with trauma clients. And then the other part of the workshop is how do we take care of ourselves as therapists? When we’re working with these clients? And I was saying to somebody last night, I think we need to be incorporating this into all the training. Yeah. You know, because it’s really hard, challenging work. I mean, I had Paul on the podcast early in season one, and you know, I think he summed it up, he says, we’re not selling baked beans. Yeah, you know, this is challenging work.

Elaine:

Yeah. Yeah. I think if we can do, I mean, it’s so tricky. I mean, I really wanted to do my CFT module at the university, because I know it helps people, it makes a difference. And I did some research on that. And then the students absolutely loved it. And a lot of the focus, even though it was the academic and they had assignments, there was that reflective part. And that’s, you know, the feedback was that they really enjoyed that having the opportunity to kind of practice what they preach, I guess. Yeah, so I think that was really important. So, so it’s kind of now at Salford we do it on a lot of the programs. But the tricky thing is, when you’re, you know, learning to be a clinical psychologist or some kind of psychologist CBT therapist or counsellor, there’s so much on the curriculum isn’t there that you need to know how to work with risk and, you know, confidentiality, as well as all the different you know, what you have to work with different disorders. But the self-care, I think on education programs is just also been at the bottom of the legs. But now hopefully, you know, with talking a lot more about that.

Hayley:

We can take care of people for longer and more effectively if we are okay ourselves.

Elaine:

Yeah. Yeah. So if it’s taught on education programs more, rather than it just being a couple of, you know, lectures or you know, it’s a reminder as well to people coming into the helping professions. Actually, I do matte, you know what about my well being? You know, I need to focus on that, too. Okay. Yeah, I get that.

Hayley:

Yeah, absolutely. We need to collaborate lane and get this onto the curriculums.

Elaine:

Yeah, we do. I mean, we do well, at Salford, I’ll do extra bits and pieces. But definitely, yeah, I’d love to collaborate with your Hayley we’ll have to think of something we can work on together.

Hayley:

Absolutely. Watch this space, everyone. So finally, Elaine, if people want to find out more about you, or get in touch, where’s the best way for them to engage in your work?

Elaine:

Well the books are in the kind of usual, they’re in bookstores. So in the UK, Waterstones, WH Smith. You can obviously buy them online. There are also links to the books on the Compassionate Mind Foundation website. So you know, next time you look on the compassionate mind foundation, you can take a look, there’s lots of fabulous books, there not just mine. And if for more information about the app, the the link for the app is www.selfcompassion.me/. But my website is beaumontpsychotherapy.co.uk. And so the app and the books are, there’s links on that website as well. And I love Twitter, because I can get to connect with like minded people like you on Twitter, which is fabulous. So my twitter address is @Beaumontelaine. And I think my email for the university is kind of on the Internet somewhere. So,

Hayley:

And I’ll put all these in the show notes as well. And will you be at the compassionate mind foundation conference in October this year.

Elaine:

Yeah, I hope so. And I think it’s in Edinburgh, isn’t it this year? Yeah. Yeah. Are you going?

Hayley:

I am. I am contemplating that at the moment. So I hope to see you there.

Elaine:

Yeah. Well, hope so. Because I think it’s a hybrid this year, isn’t it? The online and they in person? Yeah. But it would be lovely, lovely to have a proper catch up.

Hayley:

Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It’s been an absolute pleasure chatting with you. And I really hope to see you in person later this year, maybe?

Elaine:

Well, I hope so. If not, next time you’re in the UK. We’ll have to hook up.

Hayley:

Fantastic. Thank you so much.

Elaine:

Thanks for inviting me, Hayley. It’s been lovely to spend some time with you. My pleasure.

Hayley:

My pleasure.

Thank you for sharing this time with me today. I hope your time here was helpful and supportive. If there has been something in this episode that you have found helpful, I invite you to share it with another person you think might benefit. I’d also love it if you’d like to leave a review wherever you tune in. Reviews really helped to increase awareness of podcasts, meaning I can spread helpful information more widely. All reviews are welcome and much appreciated. As I know they take time out of your day. If you’d like to be notified when the next episode airs, please use the link in the show notes to join my mailing list. Music and editing by Nyssa Ray. Thanks Nyssa. I wish you all well in your relationship with yourself. And may you go well and go gently.

The Kindness Workbook, The Compassionate Mind Workbook and Elaine’s publications http://www.beaumontpsychotherapy.co.uk/index.asp?t=publications

Elaine’s website http://www.beaumontpsychotherapy.co.uk/index.asp

The Self-Compassion App https://www.selfcompassion.me/

Elaine’s Twitter @beaumontelaine

Elaine’s Instagram @drelainebeaumont

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