Episode #38 The Secret Thoughts of Successful Women with Dr Valerie Young
This transcript is computer generated and may contain errors and not be an exact representation of the audio
Hi this is Welcome to Self® and I’m Dr Hayley D Quinn, fellow human, mother, wife, clinical psychologist, supervisor, trainer and coach.
Welcome to Self® is a place where you can come and learn about the practices that assist us as humans, realise that you’re not alone in the ways you struggle, and have your curiosity piqued on various topics as I chat to wonderful guests or bring you solo episodes. This is a place to remember that you are human first and have different roles in your life that need your attention and for that you need to take care of yourself in the best way you can. My aim is that this is a place of nourishment, growth and nurture. A place where you can welcome Your Self.
Hayley Quinn 00:03
Hi, welcome to the episode. It’s really great to be back and this time, I’m bringing you another guest. I reached out to my next guest on Twitter. And she very graciously replied to a random stranger and agreed to come on my podcast. So I’m excited to bring this one to you. Dr. Valerie Young is widely regarded as the thought leader on impostor syndrome, and co-founder of Impostor Syndrome Institute, with the mission of stamping out impostor syndrome. She shared her insightful and practical advice, with over half a million people around the world, including at such diverse organisations as Google, Pfizer, Boeing, Intel, Facebook, Microsoft, Chrysler, BP, T Rowe Price, IBM, HelloFresh, JP Morgan, NASA, the National Cancer Institute, and the NBA, as well as over 100 universities in the US, Canada, Europe, Japan, and the UK, including Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Oxford.
Her award winning book The Secret Thoughts of Successful Women, (and men), Why Capable People Suffer From Imposter Syndrome and How To Thrive in Spite of it with Random House is available in six languages and her advice has appeared in dozens of major media outlets from India to Brazil, including BBC Radio, CNN, money Time, Newsweek, The New York Times, Science, Chicago Tribune, and the Sydney Morning Herald.
As you can see a very accomplished woman. Valerie earned her doctoral degree in education from the University of Massachusetts, where she studied internal barriers to women’s occupational achievement. Although her research subjects consisted of a racially diverse group of professional women, much of Valerie’s original findings have proved directly applicable to anyone with impostor feelings.
No stranger to entrepreneurship. She launched her first online business in 1998, which she then sold in 2020. It is my absolute pleasure to welcome Valerie to the podcast.
Hi, Valerie, thank you so much for being here with me on the podcast, I randomly reached out to you on Twitter after reading your book and you very graciously replied to a random stranger and agreed to come on to my podcast. So thank you so much for being here.
Valerie Young 03:52
I’m honoured that you asked.
Hayley Quinn 03:56
So could we please start perhaps with you telling us a little bit about yourself? What led you to becoming an expert in impostor syndrome, and co-founding the imposter syndrome Institute?
Valerie Young 04:08
Sure, you know, I can’t say I ever set out to be an expert on impostor syndrome. It really kind of stemmed from my own need to understand what was happening for me as a young doctoral student and quickly discovered that a lot of people felt the same way. So my degree is in education, unlike a lot of people like yourself, as psychologists in this field, so my impetus was to really apply what I learned from my research and create what I now realise is probably the first educational solution, educational intervention, if you will, to impostor syndrome. It’s morphed and changed over the years, but it’s something that seems to the approach seems to resonate with people is obviously like people go to therapy for imposter phenomena. I get to get coaching. But this is really the direction that I decided to go.
Hayley Quinn 05:06
Yeah,fantastic. So what do you what would you say are the most common features of imposter syndrome? Because I do think it’s something that many, if not all of us, at some point in our lives will experience.
Valerie Young 05:18
Yeah, I don’t know, majority of people do. There are people who have the opposite problem, irrational self confidence syndrome. Their belief in their knowledge and skills far exceeds their actual knowledge and skills. But it’s a great question, because a lot of people mistakenly see impostor syndrome as kind of synonymous with the normal nervousness ahead of you know, let’s say, a job interview or making a presentation. And it’s more than that it really fundamentally comes down to this kind of core, often kind of secret from the world belief that we’re not as intelligent, capable, competent, challenged, and qualified as other people seem to think we are. And what is so fascinating, as you know, about impostor syndrome is that we have this belief despite concrete, overwhelming evidence of our past accomplishments or abilities. So people who feel like imposters have become very adept at essentially saying, you know, sure I did it, right. I was successful, but I can explain all that. So they externalise their accomplishments, chalk them up to things like luck, timing, computer error, personality, connections, and then you know, when they do succeed, they have this fear that they’re going to be found out.
Hayley Quinn 06:31
Yeah, absolutely. Gosh, I can relate to that. I actually dropped out of school, and then ended up going to university and completing a PhD. But during my time at uni, I can remember when things would come back, and they’d be marked. If I did well, which I did do well at uni. I used to think I got the easy marker. They probably didn’t read it properly, they just skimmed through and just gave me a good mark, because they want to have it finished. Rather than seeing it as my work.
Valerie Young 06:57
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I’ve heard people say, well, they know I’m a single mom, and I’m working two jobs. They just they’re being lenient, they feel sorry for me. They’re not being very rigorous in their grading.
Hayley Quinn 07:10
Yeah, well, I was a single mum when I was at university. I never thought that one I never thought that is simply the angle. But there you go. Had I had I that would have been another one. I’d have added to my reasons why I’ve done well. What do you think are some of the things that you see and recognise as impostor syndrome, that maybe people wouldn’t recognise for themselves?
Valerie Young 07:29
I think, partly, what I see is the behaviours. People often are unconscious about how it shows up in the form of behaviours that these feelings translate into behaviours, pulling clients into Suzanne, I’m two, as you know, the two clinical psychologist who first coined the term imposter phenomenon in 1978, they identified different what they call common coping and protecting strategies, or mechanisms or behaviours. I’ve added a few to those based on my observations over the years, but what people don’t often recognise is that sometimes things like overworking, over preparing, I mean, I’m not talking about good old fashioned hard work, but the sense that, you know, I have to work harder than other people to be not as intelligent, or procrastination on important things. I mean, we all procrastinate. But this is where there’s kind of the sense that if I do at the last minute, and it’s successful, then I think I fooled them. Right. But if it reflects my lack of time and effort, then I have kind of a built in excuse for a lot of people. And I see this, especially with women not uniquely is another behaviours kind of flying under the radar. And holding back not going for challenging opportunities or assignments, not speaking up in class or meetings, not starting or growing a business or getting art to a gallery, this, the sense of pain can keep my head down, play small, they won’t, they won’t find me out, because all of these strategies are designed to help us manage the anxiety of kind of waiting to be found out and actually avoid being found out.
Hayley Quinn 09:09
Yeah, absolutely. I certainly see that in my work supervising other health professionals, but also coaching businesswomen. That that is some of the stuff isn’t it stays play small, stay small.
Valerie Young 09:20
Yeah, well, it’s safer there. Right? If you if you kind of pop your head out, it’s kind of a little bit of the tall poppy syndrome, right that you pop your head out, there’s consequences, and you could be disappointed or humiliated or fail and people might judge you. Yeah.
Hayley Quinn 09:35
And I think that that feeling, isn’t it? If I put my head out, then actually I might get found out that I’m a fraud, and I’m an imposter. So I’ll just stay down here and stay small. So with your vast experience with this, what sorts of things have you seen impostor syndrome impact for people and we’ve talked about some of them now, but what was what have been the impacts of this on people’s lives do you think?
Valerie Young 09:55
That’s a really good question because I don’t think people are as tuned into that as they should be that there really are costs and consequences for individuals, but also for organisations. So on the individual side, I mean, if you’re chronically overworking, and I want to be really clear, I’m not talking about good old fashioned hard work. But if you are overworking, over preparing, there’s health consequences. That means you’re not leaving time for other things that are important in your life, whether it’s exercise or relationships. If you chronically procrastinate, you know, sooner or later, probably some ball is going to get dropped, and there’s going to be a price there. Certainly, if you’re flying under the radar, there’s an I would say there’s a financial cost for any of those behaviours. But there’s especially a financial cost there, but you don’t get your work out into the world, you don’t see how far you could have gone or good, bad or indifferent, right? To get that information that you need. And I would say there’s a cause for everyone. Because, you know, as I always say, Everybody loses when bright people play small, but increasingly, organisations and you asked at the top, why decide to start impostor syndrome Institute, it’s really to kind of bring the work into organisations with US universities, or, you know, major corporations and help them understand that there’s kind of a missing link with a lot of focus on psychological safety right now. Which has to do with the organisation taking steps to make people feel safe, asking questions or making mistakes, but there’s really nothing happening on the individual side to help them shift their thinking. So they’re also more comfortable speaking out asking questions failing, and so on. Yeah.
Hayley Quinn 11:45
So there’s lots of impacts isn’t there on lots of different levels. And I think when you’re just saying, if people don’t put their work out into the world, good, bad or indifferent. I think if we’re not showing up as ourselves, we’re not getting the feedback, we need to get actually a true picture as well of who we are and where we’re at.
Valerie Young 12:03
Oh, boy. You’re absolutely right. And for people who feel like imposters, for many of us, you know, even constructive feedback, which let’s face it feels like criticism to us. It can be deeply wounding, you know, I think we let it be more about who we are as a person. So if somebody says your work was inadequate, we hear I’m inadequate. Yeah. But the only way we’re going to get the information we need to get better is to is to get feedback, whether it’s from the marketplace or from other people, whatever that might look like.
Hayley Quinn 12:36
Yeah, absolutely. So what would you share with someone who struggles with impostor syndrome, in order for them to help themselves?
Valerie Young 12:47
I think the first thing that I would point out is that the statistic that’s thrown around most often is that 70% of people have had these feelings at one time or another. And so in some arenas, it’s even higher than that. But the point I would make to them is that that means we’re in the majority. So the question is, like, what’s up with the other 30? Like, why aren’t we studying them? Right? So some part of that 30 does have that other problem, I talked about that irrational self confidence syndrome. But there’s that another part of that group who’s a minority within a minority, who we do want to better understand those are people who have genuinely never felt like an imposter and who are genuinely humble. And I think that the awareness that there are people out there who don’t feel like imposters is important because we often conflate confidence and competence. In other words, we think if I was really competent, I wouldn’t even I wouldn’t feel like an imposter. Yeah. The fact that even feel like an impostor was proved I must be one, right? Because we think, you know, competence being confident. 24/7. And in fact, it doesn’t.
Hayley Quinn 14:06
No, no. Wow. So what would you say is the most important thing for people that to know about impostor syndrome? I mean, obviously, it’s that this thing of you’re not alone in this. This is really a very common phenomenon for people. But what do you think is the most important thing people need to know?
Valerie Young 14:23
Yeah, well, you actually nailed one right there. This notion like, wait a minute, there’s a name for this. Other people feel the same way that can be very liberal, liberating. But along with that, and you know, I’m always reluctant to say this in front of a psychologist, but I think impostor syndrome has been over psychologize. I think we need to step back and do less psychologizing and more contextualising to help people understand the kind of perfectly good reasons why they or others might experience impostor feelings and honestly I struggle with sometimes people on I hear on other podcasts or LinkedIn who, who say with great confidence that, you know, the core of imposter syndrome is this inherent sense of unworthiness or your parents shamed you. And that’s why you feel like an impostor. And I’m, like, you know? So does that mean people in STEM, who are much more likely to experience impostor feelings feel more unworthy, or people in creative fields or students as a segment of the population for whom are much more likely to feel like imposters? I mean, never mind understanding the social realities of there’s reasons why women, people of colour, folks with disabilities, people who are first generation professionals, maybe people who are doing work or business or school in another language, are more likely to feel like imposters, you know, connected to stereotypes and not having a sense of belonging. So I think we need to kind of zoom out sometimes I can get the view from 20,000 feet. The question from not why do I feel like an imposter but how can I not?
Hayley Quinn 16:02
Yeah, yeah. But I think you’re talking to a psychologist who would agree with you that we over psychologize a lot of things. And I think you’re absolutely spot on. I think context matters so much in so many of the things that we struggle with and suffer with as human beings. Whether that is our early life experiences, or whether that’s the context we’re in, within the social or organisational worlds that we’re living in as adults. So yeah, I would agree with you on that as well.
Valerie Young 16:33
Absolutely. Can I share a quick example, I did a podcast for the British Medical Society, I think it was and it was a medical student and a second or third year physician, also on the on the podcast. And they were lamenting the lack of positive feedback you get in medicine, especially in medical school, and how hard you work in medical school. And at the end, you take an exam and in the UK, the best you can do the highest grade you can get is no concern. We have no concern about you like that. That’s the top you could get right. So I you know, I want to empathise with them and say, Yeah, that sucks, right? You work so hard, you get no positive feedback whatsoever. I said, on the other hand, if you know that, that’s the organisational context you’re in. That’s the culture. It allows you to step back and say, Okay, I didn’t know this was the culture I was going into when I signed up. But this is the culture I’m in it is not about me. It is about the culture again, so we can do less personalising and more contextualising.
Hayley Quinn 17:36
Yeah, I love that. It’s not about me, I had an experience a few years ago, a colleague, Deborah Lee, who is in the Compassion Focused Therapy field, I had wanted to start doing more training and workshops and was experiencing a lot of anxiety around that. And some of that, of course, was my like, who am I to be doing these workshops and training and my own impostor syndrome showing up. And she quite bluntly, turned around to me and said, Well, it’s not about you. Which has still, I mean, this is quite a few years ago now has proved to be one of the most helpful things that anyone has ever said to me, because it puts it into context for me now that when I’m going to do a training, or when I’m doing the podcast, or when I’m putting on a workshop, or whatever it might be, when my own anxiety starts to show up, I remind myself, I have information and knowledge, that could be really helpful for somebody that’s going to be listening. Now, not everyone might like it, and that’s okay. But the person or people that need to hear that from me, and they’re going to be there, need me to show up. If I get too anxious and decided I’m not going to do it, then not only do I miss out, like you were saying earlier on living the life I want to live because I do want to do more of this kind of work, but also the people that would have been there to hear what they needed to hear are going to miss out as well.
Valerie Young 19:01
I love that and there was something you said which I thought was really important is not everybody is going to benefit from what you have to say. And that’s okay. You know, I’ve done given talks. The exact same talk I went to went to British Columbia did a five city tour. It was completely different in each city. Some cities they were so excited they’re bouncing off the walls, it was great. Other times their arms folded, you know, not laughing You know when I say you kidding me that joke killed at the University of Iowa. It was a good reminder that it’s not always you. Right and I don’t love everyone’s art or books or acting Why should everyone love me and my work so I thought that was really important. That piece of what you said too.
Hayley Quinn 19:51
Yeah, absolutely. So important. And again it then it takes the pressure off you as well. We’re not going to try and please everybody Say, I’m going to hide what I have to provide, and some people will take from that. And other people will just leave it on the table. And, you know, I’ll never get that time back in my life. But you know.
Valerie Young 20:12
Yeah, and sometimes good enough is good enough.
Hayley Quinn 20:14
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So in your career, you were an early pioneer of diversity, equity and inclusion training. Could you talk to that intersection between imposter syndrome and diversity, equity and inclusion?
Valerie Young 20:30
Sure. You know, back in the day, when I was doing that work, I was a graduate student in college of education at the University of Massachusetts, and we didn’t call it DNI, or diversity inclusion, we called it oppression. We weren’t learning. We were just calling it what it was. And we were designing and delivering adult education, learning experiences on not just racism and sexism, but homophobia and heterosexism, ableism, classism, anti semitism, so we you know, these kinds of models and frameworks around identity development theory and working through different social issues and our, our look at our own attitudes, or behaviours, and be allies and so on. You know, so it’s always been the frame I brought to this conversation, my dissertation was interviewing 15 professional women, and this is in the early 1980s, over half of my subjects were women of colour, which was very unusual, back then, so much research was really done with, you know, white students and rats. And that extrapolated to the, to the entire planet. So I very much see it as something. The consideration is that if you’re, whenever you’re on the receiving end of stereotypes, about competence or intelligence, you’re going to be more vulnerable to impostor syndrome, and on some level, certainly to different degrees. But on some level, everybody knows what that feels like. So in my talks, for example, I’ll say how many of you have ever felt underestimated, you are the youngest person in an achievement environment? And, you know, we’ve all know what that feels like. Because the stereotypes and I say, How many of you have been the oldest person and felt underestimated? When I asked that question to Facebook employees, the 30 year old raise their hand, so it’s all it’s all relative. But because of the stereotypes, because not always having a sense of belonging? Those factors also contribute to do and postures to posture feelings. Yeah, gosh,
Hayley Quinn 22:47
I think that’s so important for people to know and understand as well, isn’t it? That it makes sense that if you are in a group that is stereotyped, if you are in a minority group, this is more likely going to be your experience?
Valerie Young 23:01
Yeah, you know, I just, I’m not gonna say the name of the agency, but they deal with nuclear energy. And it’s a very male dominated environment, as you can imagine, you know, a lot of scientists and stem. And so they took some kind of as assessment from another from a consultant and the women tested far higher for like, not valuing their work, and not seeing themselves as valuable than was the norm in other industries, and even kind of globally, right. And I think they think a lot has to do with being a very distinct minority in that organisation. I don’t know if you’re familiar with a concept called stereotype threat was pioneered by Claude Steele from Stanford University. And just briefly, what they found is that the fear of confirming a negative stereotype causes stress, which impacts performance. And it’s counterintuitive, but the more accomplished you are, the more the effect would show up. So, for example, with university students, if they told young women in college that, oh, the math exam that they’re about to take has been found to be gender neutral, they did better. But when they somehow implied that, you know what, girls women tend to struggle with this, then they did worse, right? Because it kind of reminded them of the stereotype. And, and there’s similar examples with with men and sports and things like that. So those things do really matter.
Hayley Quinn 24:29
Yeah, so for ourselves, reminding ourselves of the context that we live within, within our own lives is so important, isn’t it so we can understand how this might impact us?
Valerie Young 24:40
Well, you know, it goes back to this whole conversation about people who see it only as something about feeling unworthy, and I look, I think, Michelle Obama, who famously talked about her own imposter syndrome. I don’t think she feels unworthy. I think she understands the pressure of being the first black woman, First Lady in the United States and that she represents all other African Americans. I mean, that’s a pretty heavy burden to carry.
Hayley Quinn 25:08
Yeah, absolutely. It’s a lot of pressures. So you run your own business, you spend time teaching speaking writing, you have a great TED Talk. And you have obvious success in your career. Do you still experience impostor syndrome yourself? And what do you do to manage that, if you do?
Valerie Young 25:27
Honestly, I don’t. And let me tell you why. Let me be clear, it doesn’t mean I don’t have performance anxiety. I just got asked to be on a podcast. Do you know who Paula Poundstone is? She’s a well known comedian in the US. So a lot of people know her here. So I just literally today got asked to be on her podcast, or Oprah call tomorrow, right? I would be very anxious at first thing, what am I going to wear? And then I think like, what do I know? Right? So these thoughts would run to my head, allow me to go to what am I gonna wear before? You kind of what do I know? I know, kind of, you know, mixed together in there. But you know, all those things kind of wrapped up, especially for women. You know, but it’s like this very, you know, this momentary, this kind of fleeting thought, right? To me, it’s about being able to talk yourself down more quickly. You know, you mentioned that TED Talk, that was we were given six minutes, it’s actually more difficult to do a six minute like beginning middle end, and the 18 minutes most people get, it was at TED headquarters in front of other TED speakers. The most stressful things I’ve ever done in my life, I spent hundreds of hours writing it, timing it, practising it, and I wanted to crush it, like, we know what it feels like, no matter what your work is to like, walk away and go like, nailed it. Right? I did not have that feeling when I walked off that stage. Matter of fact, in the middle of it, it’s not clear to people watching but I lost my train of thought. And I kind of quickly said something and just threw something in and then kind of got back on track, but it was stressful. So I was telling that to a group when I was doing a talk and someone said, Oh, so you felt like an imposter. I said, No, I was disappointed. I didn’t feel like I fooled anybody. I didn’t discount my previous accomplishments or knowledge or abilities. In other words, it wasn’t externalising my success. I was disappointed. And for them, that was this big aha moment that you can still be you can be crushingly disappointed, but not ashamed, which is more the imposter syndrome piece. Yeah,
Hayley Quinn 27:43
I think that’s really important that you mentioned that because they are so different, aren’t they? And you certainly wouldn’t notice that you were feeling that performance anxiety or that you had lost your train of thought through your TED Talk. And this is the other thing, isn’t it? I think, oftentimes we experience something that the people watch, ping us don’t know that’s happening.
Valerie Young 28:06
Absolutely. You know, I hadn’t thought of this for a long, long time until you said that. But one of the first presentation they ever made was as a graduate student, I was asked to go a week before I was expecting to somebody was sick. They said, Can you give your talk I gave my talk. Were videotaped. My hands were shaking. My voice was shaking. When we watched the tape, you couldn’t tell? Yeah. And I never forgot that, that I experienced it, but they don’t necessarily see it. So you’re right. And to me, it comes to kind of a core tool, which is to keep going regardless of how you feel. In other words, I see so many people waiting to start their business or get their art to a gallery or go for a promotion. They’re waiting until they feel more confident. But you notice as a psychologist, that’s not how it works, that feelings are the last to change. You have to change your thoughts first, then your behaviours even though you don’t believe the new thoughts, but act like you believe them. And over time, the feelings and the confidence will catch up.
Hayley Quinn 29:06
Yeah, absolutely. Great advice. So could you share with us what you think are some of the most important factors in terms of taking care of yourself as someone who has many roles and I imagine a busy life?
Valerie Young 29:23
Yeah, I should have some really good answers. I work really hard. I don’t exercise enough. You know, I do have a very strong, I guess, support network of, you know, friends and so on. But I wish I could say you know, this wonderful goal model for self care and wellness but you know, I fall into the same traps and a lot of other people do especially being self employed. You know, you’re my, my grandmother used to always say to me, did you get all your work done today? And I’d say yeah, I would just say yes, it was easier, right? Because our work is never done these days.
Hayley Quinn 30:01
Look, I think running businesses lightly. So particularly being self employed is tricky. And we all know the sort of things that you could reel them off, should be, should be working less, and they should be exercising more. And we know these things, but it’s not easy. Is it to be doing that all the time. But being in business isn’t always easy. Whether we’re experiencing impostor syndrome or not. How important have you found having a support system? You mentioned that you’ve got a good support system around you whilst running your business? And what do you find most helpful about that?
Valerie Young 30:35
I think that’s absolutely critical, especially for self bosses, or aspiring self bosses and entrepreneurs. But it’s also surrounding ourselves with the with the right people, I’m probably not going to get this quote, right. But it was by Rumi and it’s something like he was a Persian philosopher who says something like when embarking on a journey, never asked for directions from someone who’s never left home, something to that effect. And so often, you know, we talk to the wrong people about our business ideas. Or, if you’re talking to people who’ve been employed their whole life, they don’t know how to help you. And I know there’s a lot of people out there. So just get rid of all those negative people in your life, just cut them out of your life. And I think, well, I liked my grandmother. But she did. But she had the same job for 50 years. So if I would talk about quitting my corporate job, she was not going to be supportive, she could not help me. And then I realised it also matters who not to go to, I could talk to her about the price of tomatoes and the weather, but not this. So find other people who are doing or have done the thing that you want to do. I think it’s a great idea to have like a Monday morning meeting with somebody, they can be in a completely different business, especially if you’re self employed your solo practitioner, and meet every Monday for an hour and have a business meeting, here’s what I’m going to do this week, here’s where I’m struggling and use that person for support or join a local group or, or work with, you know, work with a coach who can really keep you on track and help you work through the tough spots.
Hayley Quinn 32:18
Yeah, I think he makes some really good points there. And you know, different people in our lives can be there for different reasons and it’s not about having to get rid of people in your life, particularly as it’s just about being really wise about actually, do I talk to the those particular people about certain aspects of my life. And if it is around business, like you say, if somebody is employed, and they’ve always been employed, it’s not that they’re not well meaning and what they would share with you or try to help you with, but they come from a different context. So really surrounding yourself with other people who are in business and are doing not necessarily the same type of business, but the same sorts of things they’re coming up against, because they run businesses. And also, I think having people around that you can just have some fun with and not think about business and you know, take some time away.
Valerie Young 33:08
Oh, absolutely. And so does it relief to be around people who aren’t in business, because you’re not always talking about it, and you enjoy and chat about all kinds of other things. Take your mind off it. Yeah.
Hayley Quinn 33:20
Fantastic. So I asked this question to everybody that comes on the podcast, so I was curious about their answer. So if you could meet your 80 year old self, what do you think she would say to you?
Valerie Young 33:32
Well done. Well done. I hope you get this one, you know this one time around? And, you know, I love that question. I want to give it more of a think. But that’s the first thing that came to mind is I hope it’s just those two words well done.
Hayley Quinn 34:02
I can only imagine that she would I mean, the work that you’ve done. The work around diversity, equity inclusion, the work around impostor syndrome, has undoubtedly touched many, many, many lives throughout that span of your work already. I’m sure there’s many other things you’ve done in your life outside of those that, you know, I don’t know about and other people don’t necessarily know about, but the people in your life would know about. So yeah, I think that’s really lovely. So if people wanted to find out more about you or get in touch, where can they find you and engage with you and your work and I’ll put some links in the show notes as well.
Valerie Young 34:50
Sure, it could not be easier. Because I’m at imposter syndrome.com
Hayley Quinn 34:59
Very easy to find you and you’re on Twitter, because that’s how I reached out to you on Twitter. Any other social media.
Valerie Young 35:10
Yeah, LinkedIn. I’m on LinkedIn. And you know, for many years, I was mostly on Facebook, not on Facebook very much anymore, mostly, you know, friend and family kinds of things. But I kind of really switched over to LinkedIn. So that would be just my name, Valerie young. And there’s also a page for impostor syndrome Institute as well. And there we share, you know, because of articles and research and perspective and insight as well.
Hayley Quinn 35:36
That’s fantastic. So if you could distil it down, and I know this can be tricky, but into one piece of advice. What would you want our listeners to take away from our conversation today?
Valerie Young 35:49
You know, I was gonna say, it’s not tricky, but it is. So let me just tell you a really quick story. I was in this programme, I spent an obscene amount of money to be in this programme for speakers to kind of up level their business. And we were to come up with our point of view, what is your POV? What is your point of view? And people really struggled with that? What makes you unique? What is your what is your message that different than other people’s? And I would write paragraphs and paragraphs and the guy who’s the coach is like, no, that’s not it. Nobody cares about that. That’s not different. That’s not new. And I finally said, The only way to stop feeling like an imposter is to stop thinking like an imposter. And he said, That’s it. And he said, he said, No, that was that wasn’t hard, was it? I said, frankly, obviously, it was because it took me months to kind of distil it down to that. But to me it is that the only way to stop thinking like feeling like an impostor rather stop thinking like an impostor and to become what I refer to, as a humble realist, somebody who is genuinely humble, but has never experienced impostor syndrome, who thinks differently about competence has a realistic understanding of what it means to be competent, has a healthy response to failure mistakes, constructive feedback, and, and, and understands that fear and self doubt go with the achievement territory. That’s what a humble realist. Yeah.
Hayley Quinn 37:13
So not thinking like an imposter. Humble realism, understanding the context you’re in so that we can realise that actually, this is maybe why we’re feeling so much like an impostor. Fantastic. Valerie, this has been so lovely to chat to you. Again, I’m just thrilled, in life you just don’t know and I think I put that in the tweet. If you don’t ask you don’t get and you said absolutely you don’t and yes, I’m happy to come on your podcast. So again, you know, there could have been a part of me that’s like, who am I to reach out to people I don’t know and ask them to come on my podcast. But I did it anyway. And I’m really, really thrilled that you’ve come on, and I think there’s some really helpful information for our listeners here. Thank you so much for your time, your generosity and your wisdom.
Valerie Young 38:05
I’m glad you asked and you’re right, if you don’t ask you don’t get and you’re inspiring me to tag Michelle Obama. And then I want her to be my new best friend.
Hayley Quinn 38:18
I love that. I love that you’re going to do that. That’s fantastic. Please, please do that. Thank you so much.
Valerie Young 38:26
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for sharing this time with me today, I hope your time here was helpful and supportive. If there has been something in this episode that you have found helpful, I invite you to share it with another person you think might benefit. I’d also love it if you would like to leave a review wherever you tune in. Reviews really help to increase awareness of podcasts, meaning I can spread helpful information more widely. All reviews are welcome and much appreciated as I know they take time out of your day. If you’d like to be notified when the next episode airs, please use the link in the show notes to join my mailing list. Music and editing by Nyssa Ray, thanks Nyssa. I wish you all well in your relationship with Your Self and may you go well and go gently.
Episode Links
You can learn more about Valerie at ImpostorSyndrome.com
Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/valerieyoung/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ValerieYoung
Links to Dr Hayley D Quinn Resources
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Link to Welcome to Self® Compassionate Support for Women Business Owners FB Group https://bit.ly/CompassionateBusinessSupport
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drhayleydquinn
Freebies: https://drhayleydquinn.com/resources
Meditations: https://drhayleydquinn.com/shop/
