Episode #53 SEO Success and Website Wobbles with Kate Toon

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exact representation of the audio

Hayley Quinn  00:01

Hi, this is Welcome to Self ® And I’m your host, Dr. Hayley D. Quinn, fellow human business owner, and the anti burnout business coach. I’m here for service based business owners like you to help you increase your own self care and self compassion. Change the relationship you have with yourself and your business, and help you elevate your business to a new level. So you can live the full and meaningful life you desire. We are all on a continual learning journey. So let’s learn together. 

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Because remember, if you thrive, your business can too. Now let’s get to the episode. 

Hi, and welcome to another episode and another great guest. Turns out my next guest and I grew up just over half an hour from each other in the UK, and moved to Australia at a very similar time of life. Join two Northern lasses as we chat about all things SEO, websites, writing books, self care, and being yourself. 

My guest, Kate Toon is an award winning business mentor and digital marketing coach, as well as the author of the popular business book, 6 Figures in School Hours, how to run a successful business and still be a good parent. She’s an honest down to earth human on a mission to demystify the realities of running a successful online business. And while she’s serious about business, she doesn’t take things too seriously. Her stay tuned group of companies include the digital marketing collective, the clever copywriting school, and the recipe for SEO success. Kate has helped more than 20,000 other businesses, demystified digital marketing, grapple with the Google beast and find their own version of success. I really enjoyed this conversation with Kate, and I’m sure you will as well. Plus, it’s full of great information to help you in your business. It is my absolute pleasure to welcome Kate to the podcast. So hello, Kate, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, it’s really great to see you.

Kate Toon  03:27

It’s lovely to be here. And I cannot believe that we are from the same place like within literally five miles of each other.

Hayley Quinn  03:34

I know crazy. Like how’s that? So as we were talking before, we were gonna do a bit of a warning that our northern accents might get a bit stronger as we go. So some people might not actually understand what we’re talking about by the end.

Kate Toon  03:48

We will need a transcript. There you go.

Hayley Quinn  03:52

Fantastic. So do you want to start with just telling us a bit about who is Kate Toon?

Kate Toon  03:58

Oh, that’s an existential question. I don’t know. I’m a bit tired. I need more coffee. No, I mean, these days, I’d say I’m a business mentor, digital marketing coach, an author, a podcaster, speaker, a mum, a dog owner. And yeah, I’m very tired, middle aged woman.

Hayley Quinn  04:21

So lots of things which can lead us to be tired. And we’ll talk a little bit more about how we manage that and deal with that a bit later on. But one of the things I think how I kind of came across you was around SEO when I was like, What is SEO and obviously having, you know, engaged in some of your things. I know a bit more about SEO, but you are certainly one of the experts out there. So can you tell us what is SEO and why is it important for our businesses?

Kate Toon  04:47

Really SEO stands for search engine optimization, which isn’t any more helpful, but it’s the art of making Google fall in love with your website. And if Google falls in love with your website, they’re going to rank it high when people search for things related to what you do. And so there is, you know, a methodology or process and things you need to tick off to make Google find your website more attractive. The analogy I like to use is the bachelor analogy, which is a terrible analogy. 

But you know, Google’s coming in, it’s the bachelor, it’s got 30 websites to choose from, why is it going to choose yours, and Google has a bit of a list about 200 things that it wants from your website. And really, SEO is the art of working out what those things are putting them in order of priority and doing them.

Hayley Quinn  05:34

Right, so sticking with your kind of bachelor theme, website can’t just be pretty can’t it. It kind of got to have some intelligence, it’s got to have a good personality. Gotta have some interesting things to talk about.

Kate Toon  05:46

Exactly. Yeah, you know, so it’s got to be relevant. Some of the analogy doesn’t kind of work at some point, because it gets got to be fast. So you know, some of the technical things are, it’s got to load very quickly, in three seconds or less, it’s got to look really good on mobile.

Since these days, Google only looks at the mobile version of your site, it doesn’t look at the desktop version. Yeah, most of your audience, if you look at Google Analytics, you’ll probably see about 50 60% of your audience is now viewing your site on a mobile. And we all know the experience isn’t quite as good on a mobile, but that’s the device we’re using. It’s making sure that Google can get to every page on your site, the things aren’t blocked or broken. 

And then it’s about the content on the page, you know, like making sure that it’s really engaging and exciting for humans, and for Google, and that you’ve labeled things well, you know, you’ve named your images well, and you’re not trying to load a 20 megabyte image file onto the page, and people are sitting there going, and when is this like going to appear? So most of it is common sense. 

Yeah. And the problem, I think, is that SEO is a bit of a bad reputation. Because you get lots of weird people emailing you saying greetings of the day. Yes, terrible. It needs to be fixed. And you don’t get accountants doing that. And you don’t get real estate agents doing that. No, it’s really weird.

Hayley Quinn  07:10

Yeah, I was gonna I was gonna mention that, because I’m sure I’m not the only one. And obviously not with you mentioning it is I get lots of emails saying, Oh, we’ve noticed this or that and putting all this stuff, which I just look at and delete them straight away. Because I figure if I want somebody to do my SEO, or am I going to learn about it, I’m going to get somebody and I’m going to approach them. 

But they do write them in ways that they look like they’ve legitimately found problems. So how can people kind of safeguards a little bit about what what advice would you give around that stuff?

Kate Toon  07:41

Absolutely, just delete all of them. They’re not legit, they haven’t looked at your site. And they’re playing on the fact that most people don’t know what SEO is, they don’t understand their own website, they paid someone to build it and things like emails like that freak you out, right? Nobody wants to be seen to be doing something wrong. And we all understand that if we make, you know, Google gets fed up with us, then we could be taken off the index. And that’s the worst thing ever, right? So they’re just using fear. And they haven’t looked at your site. 

And you should absolutely just delete all of them. You would never hire an accountant because they sent you an email, to do your research, you’d talk to people, you’d get a recommendation, you’d get a couple of testimonials from people who are in the same industry as you. Because again, even if you hire an SEO person, they might have loads of experience working with plumbers experience working with psychologists, very different, how you how you work with them. So no, absolutely delete them, ignore them, they have not looked to your site. 

They’re just trying to scare you. Yeah. And it’s the works because they wouldn’t keep sending them if it didn’t work. So of course, lots of people who come on to my courses have been tricked, have wasted a lot of money, because they just didn’t educate themselves, which is, you know, fair with small business owners got a lot to do. You can’t be good at everything. And you want to trust that someone says they can do a good job. They can. Yeah, fortunately, they can’t.

Hayley Quinn  09:05

Yeah, so delete the emails and then Google Kate Toon and check out Kate’s offerings and stuff. I think one of the things I really like about you Kate, is you’re very transparent now on your socials. And when you do your trainings, and you’ve got some offerings, kind of from kind of free offerings through to paid offerings.

And that’s something I think you are very transparent about the work you do, which I think is comforting for people who don’t understand the area that well.

Kate Toon 09:33

Yeah, I try to be, I mean, I’m very honest about all of it, really, my failures, I share how much I make within my membership, you know, which is very vulnerable. You know, we’re British, we’re told not to talk about these. But I’m also like, you know, it’s, I don’t know, it’s funny, because it’s like, why do people not share that stuff? What are they afraid of? that someone’s going to see that they’re not the perfect beings that they’re putting out there? People are gonna see that anyway. Yeah. 

And it’s much better if I own it if I own the fact that sometimes I’m a bit of a buffoon, or I’ve made mistakes, but it’s better that I own that because it takes away other people’s power. You know, people can’t be like criticizing me for being scruffy. If I’m already out there laughing at the fact that I’m scruffy. Do you know what I mean? It takes away people’s power, and therefore makes it easy for you to show up, because you’re like, I’ve got really not much to hide. I don’t share my really bad stories, my trauma and all of that, and I know some people do, but that’s not me. 

But you know, generally, if I mess up, I think it humanizes me. And if if you if my audience thinks, oh, she made a mistake, she’s probably not for me, then they’re probably not for me. I’ve just, it’s easier as well. So much easier to just turn up and be yourself. It’s exhausting trying to be professional all the time.

Hayley Quinn  10:52

Isn’t it? I mean, that’s the thing. I think the thing I’ve discovered over my lifetime is authentic living. Yeah. is just an easier way a more joyful way to live.

Kate Toon  11:02

It is yeah, yeah. And you know, all of the paraphernalia that goes with it, like you want to say something online, anything I’ve got to me hair, I’ve got to put the dress on, and I’ve got to get my lighting, right. 

And then it’s two hours later, and you’ve not made the video. You know, turn up with your scruffy hair, who cares? I literally, you know, I think about all the people I’ve met, and I can picture them in my head. But there’s no one I think I like the look of them, do you not? I mean, it just doesn’t. I’m too busy listening to what the saying. Exactly. I think we worry a lot about. 

Hayley Quinn  11:33

Yeah, absolutely. So let’s talk a little bit about what website wobbles, like, what are some of the biggest mistakes that perhaps small business owners make with their websites? And then what might be some easy fixes that they could start with if they aren’t ready to kind of get somebody else to come in and fix things up for them?

Kate Toon  11:55

Yeah, I think you know, one non mistake is people worry a lot about which platform they should go where to go with Wix or Shopify or Squarespace or WordPress. So one little thing to say there is they’re all much of a muchness, now, they’re all pretty good. You know, they’re all pretty good. It’s really more about how much money you’ve got to spend, you know what I go like a site on GoDaddy? 

No, I wouldn’t. But those main platforms, they’re all pretty good. So that’s one kind of non mistake. But that’s something that people worry about. I think the next thing is, is just thinking that your website is a one off job, you know that you build it, you pay someone to build it, and then it’s there. It’s a living, breathing beast, it’s possibly the most important part of your business, you know, and you need to kind of give it love and attention, add content to it and keep it fresh. 

And I’d say my top tip would be to just get someone who doesn’t really understand your business that well to have a little look at your homepage, and ask them, Can you tell really quickly what I do? You know, can you tell who I am? What I do, who I do it for? And why I’m better than anybody else? You know, because, you know, like, I’ll say, again, who, who I am. So you know, I’m Kate Toon what I do. I’m a digital marketing coach who I help small business and ecommerce stores, and why I’m better than anybody else. Because I have a down to earth easy, fun approach to digital marketing. It’s a it’s called a unique selling proposition. It’s just two sentences that sum you up. 

And after the picture on your homepage, which we all have, that should be the first piece of copy. Because there’s a rule, it’s called the 330 rule. And it’s that when someone hits your site, they’ve got three seconds to feel like they’re in the right place. Right? And if they don’t, they’ll bounce out of your site very quickly. 

And then you’ve got 30 seconds to persuade them to take the next step, whatever the next step is, is it to look at your services page? Is it to look at your contact page? Is it to move to a product page and buy something? So that first three seconds if you’ve wasted that with some wiggly thing coming in at the top, and a picture of a girl jumping in a puddle? And you know, some buttons that flash? 

And I’m like, is this an insurance company? Or are they selling handbags? I have no idea, right? So you’ve got to be really speedy and getting the message across. And sometimes we need to sacrifice a bit of form or function. As you said earlier, less pretty more practical. Because pretty doesn’t sell stuff. It really doesn’t. And it doesn’t matter how good your science is, if I don’t know what you do. It’s not gonna work.

Hayley Quinn  14:27

Yeah, because the world’s really changed, hasn’t it? Everything is so fast paced. Now. The era of you know, wandering into an in, in, in real life do we call it in real life shop, where you’d go in and you’d spend time browsing around well that era is gone, isn’t it? This is now like three seconds to get someone’s attention. 30 seconds to get them to take the next step. I mean, that’s so fast paced. Yeah, the information we put there has got to be so specific, isn’t it?

14:54

It’s crucial and it’s got to load quickly. You know, don’t put it in city fancy brush. fonts, you know, that are difficult to read, make sure the contrast is good. Black copy on a white background, it’s worked for hundreds of years. Don’t change it. Don’t be putting gray copy on a lemon background. You know, it’s usability and accessibility is a combination. It’s all about clarity. And often and remember as well that someone might be viewing your site on a mobile phone at Kohl’s checkout with the sun shining on the screen. That’s the real life, right? We’re not all sitting at a desktop, patiently browsing through your content for busy people, so make it easy. 

Hayley Quinn  15:35

Yeah, those are really great tips. Any others before we move on to a different…

Kate Toon  15:40

I could go on and on. But I’d say my only other one is at least once a week, try to go through your site like a real person. If you’re a store, try and buy a product all the way through. If you’re a business service business, try to fill out your own contact form, again, on a mobile phone while walking. Preferably holding a screaming toddler. If you don’t have a screaming toddler, get someone else’s. 

Just once a week, check that because things break. Things break, plugins and apps change. And you may find that oh, I’m wondering why I’m not getting any emails. And maybe your contact form has been broken for weeks. So you know, make sure that you put a little bit of time aside every Friday morning in your diary, 10 minute quick on your phone check of your site, I guarantee if you did that every week, by the end of the year, you have found probably 100 little things you want to fix and improve on. So yeah, really important.

Hayley Quinn  16:33

 And like you say scheduling it in and allocating just 10 minutes means that we can actually do these things without it feeling too overwhelming.

Kate Toon  16:42

Yeah. once a fortnight if you want. 

Hayley Quinn  16:45

Oh, you’re very generous. Okay. very gracious. Okay. So northern thing. Fantastic. So I wanted to talk to you about what motivated you to write your first book.

Kate Toon  16:58

Oh, well, actually, this is my fourth book.

Hayley Quinn  17:00

So sorry, your fourth book. I’m sorry, I met you’ve got you’ve got another one coming out, which is very similar in title. So in my mind, I’m like, Okay, the first in the series, maybe this is going to be a series.

Kate Toon  17:11

Yes, it is. So. So this is my first I would say real book, I wrote a poetry book, a kid’s book. And then I published my first business ebook, it was called Confessions of a misfit entrepreneur in 2017. But all of those were self published. So the reason that this book is I really wanted a real publisher, I wanted distribution, I wanted to be in the airport, I wanted that thrill of being able to walk into the airport and pick my book off the shelf. Honestly, that was my motivation. 

And I’m not going to be ashamed of that. Because it was just something that I will really want to be a writer. And that and I thought, I’m going to invest this time in this for me, if I was a middle aged man, I might have bought a Harley Davidson. But instead, I probably spent the same amount on getting my book out there. But also, the book is called 6 Figures in School Hours, how to run a good business and successful business and still be a good parent, I do feel like I’m a good example of that, you know, I still only work 20 hours a week, but a very, you know, big and financially rewarding business. It’s helped a lot of people while still I think being a very present, mom. 

So I did think I had some lessons to pass on. And then now this the next one was coming out in July. 

Hayley Quinn  18:20

Yeah, that’s fantastic. And I love your motivation. Because this is a thing I think sometimes we get caught up in, you know, we shouldn’t be motivated by these things that are expected from society. But the fact that you wanted to be able to walk in an airport and pick up your own book, I think that’s really cool. I would love to do that. I have been writing the book for far too long. So once I get that finished,

18:44

We’ll have a chat about that after this podcast. Yes. I’ve worked hard. I have worked hard for many years. And last last year, the time and money I invested in the book meant that my profitability dropped from 52% to 32%. It’s  still good, but it’s a big drop. Because I wanted I took the time to invest in something for me and a life goal. And you know, business shouldn’t always just be flogging yourself. We should have some rewards. And maybe those rewards aren’t necessarily financial or, you know, business growth related. They’re just something that makes you happy. But I do think it’s had a knock on impact on my business as well. You know.

Hayley Quinn  19:20

Undoubtedly, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I couldn’t agree more with that, you know, the way I kind of build my business now is so that it fits with the life that I want. And I’m doing work that I’m passionate about, and I’m finding fun because I know that then the people I’m working with are going to get the best of me, and I’m going to be living my best life. So it’s win win.

Kate Toon  19:40

Yeah, totally. I mean, I want to kind of race to my desk on a Monday and I still do. I would say that a large chunk of my business is very boring, and repetitive. But there’s a joy in that as well, because it’s very content. There’s no ups and downs, there’s no stress. So you know, I really, all I want these days is an easy life with no bother. And if that means I don’t get many highs and lows, so be it, you know, I’d rather have that just want to keep myself on a bit of a sounds negative and flatline. Because that’s a nice place to be to have a day where there’s no nasty surprises. I love it. 

Hayley Quinn  20:16

Absolutely. And I think the little things I always taught my son, get excited about the little things, because that’s what you’ll have lots of in your life, if you’re only going to get excited when something big happens. 

You have big periods of waiting, and maybe nothing big will happen. Who knows? So I think I really like that. I was listening to a podcast. As I was driving up the coast actually last night, and it was Jamila Jamil was talking on a podcast and she was saying, Why are we all aspiring to be billionaires? That means we’re just all going to want to hold our money. Why are we why are we holding that up as something to be striving for? I mean, not gonna help the world, is it? 

Kate Toon  20:34

Yeah, my mantra at the moment is instead of Dream Big, do small, incremental changes rather than, like, reach for the stars up level dream, oh, whatever, you know, just do something little and enjoyable and keep on swimming. I think, you know, persistence and longevity is underrated. In our business world, you know, turning up every day to a job that you enjoy that supports your life that’s enough that can’t that be enough. Do we all famous that we all have to make millions? 

No. No, we’re English. And we’re Northern. And that’s definitely not something that is promoted, where we come from, you know, my parents were very much, you know, never a borrower or lender be don’t get credit cards. You know, just keep it small. Don’t be over ambitious. And I think that can hold you back. Like, I don’t think ambition is wrong. But you’ve got to be really careful about what you set as your goal. Like, you know, I fell into that I made money, my God. 

And you know, I hit my million dollars a year. And it was deeply unsatisfying. That sounds a very smug thing to say. But now I’ve actually reduced my income goals dramatically. Because, you know, I want to, I want to make sure that I’m happy, you know, as well.  I’m so sorry. My wonderful partner just bought me a coffee. I’m sorry to interrupt your podcast.

Hayley Quinn  22:25

Absolutely Oh, never apologize for that. That’s wonderful. And it’s not about demonizing ambition. I’m an ambitious woman. Yeah. But but like yourself, it’s this shift in that what am I actually working towards? And I know when I work with people, it’s always what is your definition of success? 

Let’s not go with because there’s so much stuff isn’t there of, you know, build a six and seven figure business only work two hours a week. I mean, that maybe maybe when you’ve built it down the track, you can work next to no hours, but that does take a lot of work. And there’s this cost to it. When I was studying I was I was always asking myself because I was raising my son on my own. I’m gonna do this, but at what cost?

Kate Toon  23:11

Oh, oh, that’s the exact thing I say in my book, like, you know, there is you can have whatever you want. If you take the consequence with it, you know, my books, ironically started with six figures, right? Six figures in School Hours, my next one, 6 Figures while You Sleep. Six figures in this world. If we say it’s 100 grand, before tax is not a lot of money in Australia in this market it would you get a property or anything like that. That’s a baseline, really. But you know, it’s still hard for a lot of people. And you know, you have to get there first. But I think the main thing is, is yeah, what is your definition of success Don’t be impacted by other people’s vision. 

Because, you know, I’ll often see someone doing something fabulous. But it’s funny, I just was talking to you before this. I went and spoke at Writers Festival. A couple of years ago, I saw that and thought that would be a dream. It was alright, it was good. I loved it. But it was four days away from home. It was a lot of travel. I didn’t know anybody. I’m quite introverted. I was on stage for about half an hour. It was all it was good. It was amazing Yeah. And it’s like I set that up for some big goals thinking it’d be Whoopty doo but honestly, it was great coming home so you know, just be careful what you wish.

Hayley Quinn  24:24

Absolutely. So I’m curious what did you learn in the process of writing a book and like say you’ve written a few so because I think anything like that those kinds of endeavors as well as running businesses, I think they’re more of a personal growth journey than anything else.

Kate Toon  24:43

Well, we’re like the same person. Everything you’re saying I’m like I was gonna say that huge personal development, the ability to make yourself do something every day that in reality you don’t want to do because very hard writing a book and to do it in a short period of time, so I wrote my first one in about seven weeks. This one’s taken a little bit longer. But to turn, you know, after we finished this, I’ve got to write more of my book, I don’t want to, I’d rather do anything else. 

So the ability to force yourself to do something you don’t want to do. And there’s no immediate dopamine. Like, it’s slow release serotonin of achievement. I’ll get my dopamine later down the track, but right now, it’s pleasure delay, massive pressure delay, and just sog. You know, also taught me the art made me realize I am a good writer like I can I can say that with confidence. 

Now, it’s you never know, do you, but it’s been very well received. And I’ve had some confidence about the writing as well as and just the ability to see something through. So often we set goals and we start things and we don’t finish them to finish it, you know, is it is part of a trilogy. So there is one more coming, but I may get myself I’ve said to myself, I won’t do that next the start of next year, but I probably will. I know what I’m like, I love having a goal. I love having a project, even though it’s a stick to beat myself with while I’m doing it. I’m gonna feel so good. I’ve got three chapters to go, Haley, and then I’m done.

Hayley Quinn  26:14

So exciting. Very exciting. And I think like you say, finishing I have an early, early life history of starting and finishing nothing. And when I went to Yale, I went to uni as a single parent and ended up doing a PhD and finishing that PhD. One was felt great, because I’d done a PhD. But two, it was this nod to my younger self to say, you see, we’re always capable, always. And we did it.

Kate Toon  26:44

I love that. But it’s so I have a physical tangible thing. I did. I did that. And that’s why you know, Every time I go into a bookshop, I’ll take a photo of it, and I’ll do it till I die. Because that is, as you said, it’s proved to myself that I can do hard things. And things that other people, you know that the cheesy meme about it, isn’t it that you’ll put the time in? 

Now, when people won’t have something that people most people aspire to, and will never have? You have to push yourself not to the point of burnout, and to talk about that. But there is a degree of pushing yourself and doing things that you don’t want to do. Life isn’t all jolly and wonderful. Yeah. It’s just hard work. And accepting that is as important, I think.

Hayley Quinn  27:30

Yeah. Well, that’s inspiring me to get back to my book, which is a large draft at this point just needs some work doing. Yeah, I’m going to be living up at the beach for at least the next year. So I said to my husband, maybe this is the time for me to tune into that creativity and get my book done. 

Kate Toon  27:49

So I think this was this is a serendipitous discussion.

Hayley Quinn  27:54

So one of the things you’re saying not to the point of burnout, and what I like to talk to guests about is, how do you take care of yourself whilst running a business because it can get to be something that can be all consuming or overwhelming. And I think if we’re not intentional about it, it can be the thing that runs our life.

Kate Toon  28:14

 Absolutely. I mean, I think I’ve not burnt out but I’ve definitely smelt the whiff of the smoke, you know what I mean? So if we can go back maybe to 2016/ 2017, I was very overweight, very unhealthy has health problems. I was, you know, three coffees in the morning, half a bottle of wine at night, kind of on a horrible treadmill loop racing to my desk because as I haven’t got time to go to the gym, or any, I’ve got so much to do so much to do. 

Try and look after my son, my partner and I have separated as well. So we do share the load. But you know, having a child is a big deal. A lot of mind brain stuff there. So I think I was you know, really not looking after myself at all, and I really didn’t hit rock bottom, but pretty close. And I think since then, you know, I’ve made big changes. I put a lot of effort into losing weight not there’s anything wrong with being, you know, big or small but for me, I was unhealthy.

Hayley Quinn  29:12

It was a health thing.

Kate Toon  29:13

Yeah, it’s fatty liver and horrible things like that, you know, I’ve pretty much given up drinking. So once in a while I’ll have a glass of wine, but you know, God, I used to have, you know, drink nearly every night, you know, especially during COVID. I go to the gym, I exercise, I walked the dog and I don’t work much. I’m not one of these rewarding people who says I work two hours a day. 

But I do work four hours a day four or five. And you know, I go make sure I have breakfast in the morning and my vitamins and I finish at three and from three onwards is my time and I do nice things. And that has been a big as I said massive impact on my income. But how much money do you need? For you know, I don’t want anything. I just want to have a nice life. So yeah, I’m very conscious of that. I do try and meditate, I do try and do yoga, but I’m more of an active relaxer.

Hayley Quinn  30:06

Absolutely. And I think one of the really, really important things is knowing ourselves so that we can choose those activities and nice things that suit us not that somebody on the internet is telling you that’s how you do life well.

Kate Toon  30:20

Yeah, exactly.

Hayley Quinn  30:21

You know, I think that that’s the really important thing isn’t it is know what suits you. You mentioned you finish at three and do some nice things for yourself. Can you share what perhaps some of those are? Because I think sometimes when we do that, it helps people. Oh, I haven’t thought that. Oh, maybe I could do that when I finish work or in the morning or whatever.

Kate Toon  30:41

Yeah, I mean, I you know, I’m lucky to live in a nice place. I like going for walks. But you know, I’ve got a lot of pleasure as you said small things just walking out to Cole’s shopping at a leisurely pace on my own. I love shopping, even if it’s just buying food, you know, I put around the garden. 

You know, I’ve got little projects I things like, you know, paint by numbers and stuff like that, but just puttering around like, you know, just sort of in a bit of a your brain has slipped sideways and you just sort of wandering around your house picking things up and putting them down again. That’s it really it’s nothing sexy. It’s not like I’ve you know, I do glorious tapestries or anything like that I’m just puttering around just mooching around

Hayley Quinn  31:22

Just being with yourself.

Kate Toon  31:25

Yeah, doing everything slowly. No urgency. I do you love a bath. I’d love a long bath. I have a bath every day. So bath.

Hayley Quinn  31:38

Yeah, I love that. Because they are very accessible things for people. And it really sounds like that. That’s you being in relationship with yourself and just taking care of yourself and tuning in. What do I feel like right now? What do I need right now? And then giving that to yourself.

Kate Toon  31:57

That’s it. Yeah. And I, you know, I like the idea of going into classes and group workout sessions and stuff. But I say to myself, if I’m nearly 50. And I’ve never done that, because the reason why. I stopped making that my goal, I wouldn’t really enjoy it. It again, it’s that external thing of saying, Well, this is what it looks like. And it’s like that for me.

Hayley Quinn  32:22

I’ll say to my husband, I’ll come up with an idea of how I’m going to do life, you know, yeah. And then I say, Oh, hang on a minute. Now. Actually, I’m gonna plan it based on who I am. Yeah. And it’s gonna look completely different.

Kate Toon  32:39

My very weary partner is like, cool. That sounds really good. It’s great. That fun knowing full well, I will never do it.

Hayley Quinn  32:46

Oh, that looks really exciting. It looks really cool. I’d like to do that. And I might actually know then

Kate Toon  32:51

And this is getting more in tune with because I have today me and and yesterday, me and God do I curse yesterday me sometimes,  she sets out these ridiculous plans and goals. And it’s really about being more together in yourself. So you’re like, you know, someone asked you to do something? And instead of saying yes, and then dreading it, you really sit for a minute and go? 

No, I don’t actually want to do that. I wouldn’t enjoy that and being brave enough to say that in the moment. Or just to say, Let me think about it, and setting yourself up for failure and misery. You know, like… Well, this is it. And I think the thing is, there’s a big thing about wanting to be liked and wanting to be accepted by the tribe. And you know, even when I was at this Writers Festival, someone said, oh, you know, I’ve got a free spot. In my workshop this afternoon. 

You’re welcome to come and it was such a nice offer. And I waited, I looked at the text, as I really don’t want to don’t want to go to that it was such a nice offer, how kind of them they’re gonna think I’m such a rude cow. And so in the end, I just wrote back and said, that’s a really, really kind offer. I won’t be able to make it but thank you and I didn’t give any excuse. I didn’t, whatever. But I, you know, it took me a while to send that message. Because I didn’t want to be rude.

Hayley Quinn  33:24

Absolutely, I think you touched on two really important things there is that, again, that slowing down, give yourself space when somebody asks something of you, so that you’re not reacting, but you’re allowing yourself to respond. And then learning to say, No, this is something I work with people in my groups is learning to say no, because it’s one of the smallest words we have. 

That can be one of the hardest to say, but I say to people, it’s not that you don’t know how to say, No, you’re saying it to the wrong person. Because when you’re saying yes to people, when you don’t want to, you keep saying no to yourself? But that was fantastic. And you did it in a way that is really lovely. It’s like gratitude of Thank you. That’s really kind of you. And I can’t come. Yeah, thank you anyway. I love that. I love that. 

So what is something if you could go back to your younger self we were saying before we both came out to this wonderful, wonderful land of Australia when we were 25 because we literally are twins. What is something you would go but if you could go back and say to your younger self, about business, or life, what would you say to her?

Kate Toon  35:13

I’ve been so cliche, but the biggest thing would be to stop looking at other people. I’ve wasted months and years being envious and jealous of other people looking at their successes and grumbling about why I’m not having that success. You know, we’re all there doing this thing. I want to do this thing, even though I don’t, in my heart. And just feeling like the unpopular kids, you know, and feeling like I’m on the outside looking in, and everyone else is doing amazing. 

And you know, just that’s just time when you realize that most people feel like that. And that the people who are probably most sort of showy and I’m doing this are usually the most insecure, you know, putting it out there, and that even if they’re not, that’s their happiness, and it’s got nothing to do with me and just leave them alone and just do your thing. So it’s very cliche, but it’s, you know, stay in your lane, do your thing. Stop worrying about what everyone else thinks about you, because they probably don’t think about you at all.

Hayley Quinn  36:09

I love that. Fantastic. And then this one is a question I asked all my guests, and I love waiting for the answers for this one. But if you could meet your 80 year old self, what do you think she would say to you right now?

Kate Toon  36:24

Oh that’s brutal, Haley, hopefully, she’s still alive. That’s the main thing. She says, Thank you so much for being fit and healthy. As I mobile and active as an eighty year old, I think she would say, I hope and, you know, I’ve got 30 years between then and now. And these 30 years, I think you’re going to be my best 30 years. I’ve got a lot of exciting things planned, and a lot of puttering to do. 

So I think she just so well done. Good on ‘ya, keep going, you know, everything you’ve said on this podcast, and everything that you talk about in your shows, you know about being true to yourself, being intentional, taking a breath and making sure that you are living the life that you want to live, not the life other people want you to live. I think she’s proud of me.

Hayley Quinn  37:13

Yeah, I think she would too. Fantastic. It’s been such a pleasure chatting with you, Kate, thank you so much for coming on. I’ll put all your contacts in the show notes. And people can come and find out more about you and the things that you offer. And perhaps I’m going to jump into your SEO Training next round. It’s clashed with me moving house this round, but I’m so keen to learn more about that and learn that what I’m going to see is a another language.

Kate Toon  37:49

Another language, very accessible language. Well, most exciting thing as well is that you’ll be able to hear you on my podcast, 6 Figures in School Hours. So if you’ve enjoyed this episode, come and listen to that one.

Hayley Quinn  38:01

Absolutely. So you take care. Have a beautiful day, enjoy your puttering and we’ll speak again soon.

Kate Toon  38:09

Thank you.

Hayley Quinn  38:14

Thank you for sharing this time with me today. I hope our time together has been helpful and supportive. If there has been something in this episode that you have found helpful, I invite you to share it with another person you think might benefit. If you’ve benefited in any way from the podcast, please do me a favor and show my pod some love by giving it a five star rating and review. 

Ratings reviews and shares really helped to increase awareness and reach of the podcast, allowing this helpful information to be spread more widely. All Reviews are welcome and much appreciated. If you do share on socials, remember to tag me so I can see who’s listening. Because you never really know over here in podcast land, and I can reach out personally to say thank you. If you’d like to be notified when the next episode airs, please use the link in the show notes to join our mailing list. If you have any particular topics you’d like to learn more about, or guests you’d like to hear from, please reach out and let me know. I’d love to hear from you. Music and editing by Nyssa Ray. Thanks Nyssa I wish you all well in your relationship with yourself and your business. May you go well and go gently. And remember, if you thrive, your business can too.