Episode #51 The Power of Language with Anita Siek

This transcript is computer generated and may contain errors and not be an exact representation of the audio

This is Welcome to Self® and I’m your host Dr Hayley D Quinn, fellow human, business owner, and the anti-burnout business coach. I’m here for service-based business owners like you to help you increase your own self-care and self-compassion, change the relationship you have with yourself and your business, and help you elevate your business to a new level so you can live the full and meaningful life you desire. We are all on a continual learning journey so let’s learn together.

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Now let’s get to the episode.

Hayley Quinn 0:01

Hi, and welcome back to another episode. I’ve got another great guest episode for you today. And I’m excited to introduce her.

I first met my next guest a few years ago, when she spoke about copywriting in a coaching program I was a part of her energy captured me straightaway, and I started following her on social media. Fast forward and I engaged with some of her free and paid content. And last year, decided I wanted to work more closely with her. So I joined her mastermind as a coach. Well in all of my businesses. I’ve always made sure I have my own support. I think it’s so important that we have people in our lives and businesses that support us, cheerlead us, teach us and keep us on track when there’s too many shiny things and brilliant new ideas. So let me tell you about my guest

Anita Siek is a lawyer turned brand strategist and copywriter and CEO of Wordfetti. A human centred brand strategy and copywriting house, specialising in helping brands that don’t do normal create a dent in their industry through the power of psychology and words with a big passion for words language, and how the delicate choices of how they can trigger different emotions and feelings in a reader. And Anita and her team at Wordetti are on a mission to spread the power of words, one of the most powerful tools we as humans have, in igniting world changing ideas, provoking thought and driving meaningful action and results.

Anita’s work has been featured on Forbes , Umbrella Smartcompany, Thrive and more. And some of her clients include Australia’s largest Insurance Group, IAG, Challenge DV, formerly known as Australia’s CEO challenge, Lack Of Colour, the Calile Hotel Group, and Luna Bronze.

Anita is an inspiring and remarkable woman who runs multiple businesses and aligns so well with my thinking about how life and business best interact. She is definitely a woman to pay attention to. And I have no doubt that you’ll get a lot out of this episode. It is my absolute pleasure to welcome Anita to the podcast.

Hey, Anita, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I’m really excited to chat with you today.

Anita Siek 4:23

Thank you so much for having me. It’s gonna be a good one. I’m excited.

Hayley Quinn 4:27

Awesome.

So can we just start with perhaps you telling us a little bit about yourself and what led you to the work that you’re doing a little bit about who is Anita Siek

Anita Siek 4:36

A little bit of a walk down memory lane, I can do that. So hello, everyone. So I am Anita. I would love to say I had a very linear journey to doing what I do today, but it is very nonlinear. I used to be a lawyer and I don’t know I climbed the corporate ladder, the thing that you’re supposed to do, I went to University I studied law and psychology, actually, originally law and commerce, but then I was just not excited about the commerce bit. So I said to my parents, okay, I’m doing law because you wanted me to do law, but can I please choose something for myself? And they’re like, Okay, fine. So I swapped commerce to psychology. And then yeah, became a lawyer, because that’s what you do, after six and a half years, and did a two because that was what I grew up, knowing my parents wanted me to do, being a lawyer or a doctor climbed the corporate ladder, and felt empty daily, like, very empty, I had my eyeballs on this role that I thought was the role that I wanted. And that I would have made it if I got it. I got it. And I felt empty. Like I was just like, ah, where is the confetti cannon? Where is like the, you know, all the cool things that are supposed to happen once I reached this role. And then that was when I was like, okay, well, there is something missing. So I started to create, you know, side businesses or side hustles don’t love the word hustle, but like side businesses, just to tap into my creative outlet. I had two other businesses before Wordfetti, which is my business now. So just really quickly, I did photography, so I took photos at people’s weddings, events, it was so much fun. But it was not my thing. Like I still love taking photos. But it is just not my thing. I was a food blogger as well at that stage. And then I moved to starting a little small business with my mom because she loves plants. So she has like a beautiful rainforest literally in her house, always whereas I kill cacti and killed terrariums. So that was not going to be a vibe when people were emailing us asking me about plants and why their plants are dying. I’m like ‘mine is too!’ My solution is my mom. Anyway, that didn’t work. So we’re very began. And that was, gosh, almost six, seven years ago. And it was born purely because of my love language and words. I love words. I grew up in a household where I learned like, four or five languages at the same time. And it’s so cool that we all have this medium that we all have to connect. And yeah, share stories and messages with each other. So yeah, here we are today. So weird fairy is now a dedicated like business to teach online businesses and copywriters alike how they can really stand out and convert through the power of words and psychology and understanding consumer psychology. And yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hayley Quinn 8:08

That’s fantastic. And I love a windy road story. I have a very windy road story myself. And I do like to hear that it’s not just me. Which I know it’s not. But let’s start with you stepping away from this hardened profession as a lawyer to become a copywriter and business owner. I’m curious about what were some of the challenges you faced? And what would you say to someone else who’s kind of dreaming of changing careers, but but scared to take that step? Because I think there’s lots of people doing things that actually aren’t lining them up. You know?

Anita Siek 8:42

I would probably say the top two challenges I experienced in that wobble was one guilt, or my parents, from my parents, or not from my parents, sorry, just guilt in general. Because I grew up with them being like, oh my gosh, we’ve worked so hard to put you in the best private school in Brisbane and, you know, like all the tutoring and all of that. And there was just this weight, this backpack that I was carrying that I was like, if I did anything else, that would be a disappointment to my parents, because they had worked so hard and sacrificed so much. And I’m an only child. So I’m like, Oh my gosh, all right. So that would be the first thing. My first wobble. I think the second wobble was this more more probably just me personally, I didn’t – my – both my parents are business owners. So it’s not like I’ve never seen what it’s like, but I think the second element to it is I went into it not feeling like it would be the thing like it would be the thing like I did it on the side even when I was sharing with you the story like it was always like the side-hustle. Yeah. And if it wasn’t for the sliding door events. So the sliding door event for me was, I got promoted, I got promoted in my role in, in the government. And I one, felt empty, but also to it met with a bit of backlash from people that was in the team. And I’m gonna just quickly say like, 90% of the team were incredible. They were like, Oh, my gosh, amazing. And then the 10% of the team would just, you could just feel it like it was almost like, Who is this person? I’m also Asian, I’m like I was in my mid or early 20s. And I have just moved up, like four or five, like, ranks, literally until a senior position. And they are like, what, who is this, we have been here probably for like, you know, 10-20 years, and I get it, I get it, I do get it. But in that moment, it was the first time I had ever experienced an element of an exclusion to people rolling their eyes, when I’m talking to being excluded from meetings to just, you could feel it. It’s an energy that I just felt. And that was my sliding door moment. Where so after I got promoted three months later, was when I actually quit, which was a shock to my director, because he was like, wait, what,why?

Hayley Quinn 11:21

We just promoted you!

Speaker 1 11:24

And I was like, no, like, I don’t like, this is the time, like if, and this is what I want to say to anyone who is on the fence on the edge. This is the time like, there is no other time, you can’t wait until you make X amount so that you feel better leaving the corporate job because that was in my head. I was like, if I made like six figures, which was what it was getting to six figures and my, you know, business small business, then I can leave my corporate job. But I was only giving a side-gig energy. So how can I expect it to give me this thing like and don’t get me wrong, there could be exceptions, you could have a, you know, it could happen. But that was the time and I remember, almost not even, it was a no brainer. Like I literally was just like, this just does not feel right for me. And I would much rather not have a job than to feel like this every day because I was crying Hayley, like I would be devastated every day after work and be like, I don’t understand, like, why people are being like this. To me, it feels uncomfortable. There is no other time, though. Because in my head, I’m like, what is the worst thing that can happen? I go out there, give this business that I’ve created my best shot. It doesn’t work. But guess what, I’ve still got skills that I’ve added on throughout the X amount of years. Yes, I could probably apply for another role in government, I could get a role in McDonald’s, if I want to, like, I will be okay. Like, I will be okay. But there is only one chance. Now. That is a fork in the road. You either continue living life with this. And I was like, I’m not going to be happy in this for the next five years, or I try something different. And that was when I Yeah, took the leap and didn’t tell my mom for a year.

Hayley Quinn 13:17

Oh my God. But is that really tuning into yourself? Isn’t it it was like you being aware of how you’re feeling and what that was like for you and the energy that you felt in that workplace that helps you decide. And a lot of the work I do with people is really getting them to understand themselves and tune in to how they’re feeling. Because until we can do that we can’t make good choices for ourselves, right? You could have kept turning up to that same job feeling really depleted really distressed by it. I mean, you you know, I know you Anita, and it doesn’t surprise me that you kind of worked your way up the ranks really quickly. And you’re going to do that in whatever you do. So why not do it for yourself because obviously you’ve started what you’re doing and you’re very successful with that. I’d like to talk to you about a couple of things today. One around the copywriting stuff because I think a lot of people listening, you know, a lot of us struggle with that. We kind of know what we want to say we don’t always know how we want to say it. So I think copywriting is a really important thing, but also some stuff around business. So can we start with the copywriting stuff around why do you think words and messaging are so important for a business?

Anita Siek 14:26

Yep. Three big reasons. One words, language is the central medium in how you and I connect and communicate. It is like the key to communication for us as humans. It’s how we share ideas. It’s how we share stories. It’s how we then create that element of connection so that people feel like oh, I trust you Haley, I trust Anita, I feel like you get me and that is when connections are formed and before conversion is connection. So that’s one of the biggest reasons why words, language messaging is important. The second reason is how we as consumers actually make a purchasing decision. I’m a big believer in the fact that there are three key questions that indirectly your audience are actually asking before they’re ready to go, Yep, I am in or Yup, I want to buy this or add to cart. And that is why this, why now? And why you? If you cannot communicate that and say, why this, which is why this solution, why this offer, why this product? Why you? In other words, out of all the other brands or people that could also help me solve this problem? Why should I choose you or your offer, and then why now is the element of prioritisation because the reason why some people do not take action is like, it’s not because they may not see like value potentially, or that you don’t have a great product or an offer. It’s because they do not see the priority of them taking action now. There is something that is above that. So when it comes to copywriting and messaging, this is where we can convey through language, the real value of what we’re actually selling, and what we’re actually offering out there to the world. And the final thing is, which is a bit of an extension of what I’ve just mentioned, that it has the ability to make you complete, like just stand out and actually convey the real value of what you’re actually offering. If you’re a service based business, you’re not just selling based on hours. It’s so and this is very easy for an ex lawyer as well. So it’s like, it’s a very traditional way of looking at how you charge but that is, I believe, controversial opinion. But I believe that setting so many service based businesses up to fail this way of thinking where you’re charging based on our because guess what, you’ve only got so many hours in the day, and you’re going to be capped, right. So a copywriting a messaging really invites us to actually look at the value of what we’re delivering beyond just one hour, two hours, or beyond just maybe the features and benefits of a product. But actually, what does the service or the actually do for you? And how can you communicate it in a way that is clear and succinct and is memorable?

Hayley Quinn 17:33

Yeah, so so many reasons, isn’t it. And again, you touch on that, you know, really conveying what it is you’re offering, but also who you are as the person offering. And I’ll come back to this and come back to this with everything that I do is, and so you need to understand yourself, because you need to understand yourself to know what it is that you bring to the table. And I think the other thing you know, when you were talking about this is the way we communicate is the importance of this in both spoken and written medium, so that we are accessible to people, not everybody can read the stuff not everybody can hear the things that we say. So that importance of using our words, even on things like social media, making sure we’ve got the captions and things happening when we’re speaking I think that that always comes to mind for me is you know, we need to make sure that we’re being accessible for other people. What would you say to somebody who thinks they really can’t write they’re like, Oh, but I really can’t write or I don’t know how to get the ideas out of my head. What would you say to them apart from join your wonderful Wordfetti club?

Anita Siek 18:40

Here is here’s what I’d say. We all know how to write. We were taught it in school, we were taught it in high school, primary school kindy uni college. But here’s the biggest misconception. How we were taught to write in school is very different to what copywriting actually is. And this is maybe an old element of just us thinking writing is like red markers. You know, this is wrong, you’ve got to be plus for this because you didn’t do this. And you were critiqued? Literally, if we really think about what we were how writing was in school, you weren’t critiqued even from assessments to assignments, you were critique it with a red marker. This is right, this is wrong. So of course, then going into the real world, you’re gonna be like, oh, no, I don’t want to get it wrong. I don’t want to get wrong. I forgot my comma here. I’ve got my like, how do I start a sentence? So already we’re starting in, for example, a professional world already feeling that anxiety or that fear that we’re going to get it wrong? But copywriting is not getting the commas and grammar absolutely chef kiss. And I say this, again, slightly controversial, but half of the most memorable messaging and taglines have zero grammar like Got Milk? zero grammar like that is that does not make sense. Got Milk, it should really say have you got milk? Right. So when we think about it from the lens of writing, and copywriting is completely different, copywriting and this is what I would say to someone who is like, I cannot write, and I cannot get my words out. The biggest part of copywriting is your ability to translate and trust what’s in your mind in your words and translate that out there into language and words like translate the brilliance out of your head, onto paper into words, if you do not trust in what you’re about to say, if you do not have confidence in what you’re selling, of course, the words are going to be blocked. So this is where it’s almost like, instead of thinking that it’s just about grammar, getting it right, like take the time to ask those questions like why should people buy your product? Or what are your offer? Why should they choose you? Once you have that structure? The words will flow a lot easier if you allow yourself and trust yourself instead of approaching it from the space of fear. Oh, no, I’m gonna get wrong, you can’t get it wrong, you can always edit, you can always edit. So that is what I would say everyone can write, but a lot of it is in trusting and taking imperfect action and also to recognising that copywriting is simply a conversation you’re having with your audience.

Hayley Quinn 21:28

Yeah, so practising and building confidence. Can I add as well, I think one of the things that we learn in school and in higher education as well is do not have an original thought. Regurgitate whatever it is that you’re saying or researching. And the beauty about when we start copywriting is, it’s all original thoughts isn’t that not necessarily all original thoughts, but we can bring ourselves to that. And one of the things I I do for myself, because if I start writing or typing, I can get a bit stuck. We have very formal, you know, psychologists, we have very formal ways of writing. And when I go to type something, I can find myself in this quite formal way of doing it. So what I’ve started doing is I transcript, I speak it into an AI programme, and have it translate. So it is like a conversation. And I find that is like my first draft. So that it’s not this formal, you know, so and so reported and blah, blah.

Anita Siek 22:29

That is a really great strategy. And I even though it’s not like you in front of the computer typing, I vouch for that, because sometimes we are like, it does come a lot easier. We use words every day. So don’t tell me that you can’t write like, we use words every day, it’s just a matter of actually writing it that makes you feel like oh, no, I need to get about the first one. And, you know, one of the other things that I have found to be really helpful. And this is one key strategy, I would recommend for anyone who is feeling stuck with getting the words out because the next question listeners may have is like, okay, cool, but like, how do I get my words out? Is I really want you to think of that one person you’re actually writing to, like, literally as you’re about to type or you’re about to record what you want to say, really, if you have to close your eyes, like literally close your eyes, or think about that person, their frustrations, their fears, they’re sitting in front of you, and they what would you say to them? Right? What would you say to them, you’re not going to talk to them in a way that is, you know, this brief contains evidence that is going, you’re not going to get all corporate.com, right? You’re going to be like, you know, you know, recent statistics have actually shown this, which is crazy, because A, B and C so it’s like, think of that person in front of you.

Hayley Quinn 23:50

Yeah, we’re communicating with a human, aren’t we? We’re not we’re not just communicating with the keyboard. We’re communicating with a human being. Yeah,

Anita Siek 23:58

That’s right. Yep.

Hayley Quinn 24:00

I think that’s so helpful. Thank you, I think people really find those little ways of just getting started, can be helpful. And that understanding that we have been taught in a way that isn’t how we want to be writing as business owners, you know, unless we’re doing formal reports and things of course, and then

Anita Siek 24:17

Of course, yeah, it’s it’s just, it’s also just flexing that muscle to like, I would highly recommend just letting yourself write with no real objective. Because as soon as you write you think you have to get it right. But like if you just let yourself even, that there’s a like morning pages where you can just write, there’s no agenda, like you’re just letting what’s in your mind and what’s coming into your mind out there into words. No one has to see it, but it’s just practising the muscle of writing, writing.

Hayley Quinn 24:52

Absolutely. I recently started writing for a magazine. And one of the things I love about that is just this creative space to just write, submit something like that, if I don’t want to do I don’t. But I’m quite committed to like, No, I’m gonna do that because it’s building my writing muscle and I’m really loving it.

Anita Siek 25:10

That’s it. Yep.

Hayley Quinn 25:12

So you run a couple of businesses with different services. And one of the things I really love about you and was attracted to working with you, because of course, I’m in your mastermind, Anita, which is wonderful. And one of the things I was really attracted to you is not only are you an amazing businesswoman, you’re very inspiring as I watched you, you and I kind of met many years ago in another coaching thing where you came in and spoke about copywriting. And your energy captured me at that point. And I started following you on social media. As I think often happens with people, we start kind of stalking people on social media, social media and checking you out. And then I was very inspired about how you run your businesses and the way you operate. And one of the things I love is your commitment to making sure that your business is also aligned with the way you want to live. That’s something that’s very close to my heart. That’s something I work with people in my programmes with. Could you share with our audience some of the things that you keep in mind, to ensure that you’re running a sustainable business and taking care of yourself as a business owner?

Anita Siek 26:17

Yes. Okay, before I do that, I do want to highlight the moment that actually got me to think the way that because I did not start off like this. I did not start the business. And like, Yeah, I’m gonna include self care today. And then I’m gonna go for a no, no, no, it’s like,

Hayley Quinn 26:36

we all have one of those stories.

Anita Siek 26:39

Like three and it was ugly, okay? Like, like, two three years, I hustled, I hustled, because I went from side hustle to then this business. And then I was working six, seven days, I worked like 10-12 hour days. And it was not healthy. I burnt out, I blacked out actually, before a photo shoot. And I still went to the photo shoot like so my husband now took me to the doctors and he was like, oh, yeah, you should probably just rest. You want me to write you a doctor’s certificate? I’m actually funny. Funny. No, you cannot write me a doctor’s certificate, because that won’t work. Anyway, how do I that was a big reason. It was a big wake up call for me. My health deteriorated. I blacked out, I had to reschedule a lot of things. And I felt bad. Like just felt bad in general, physically, mentally, everything. The business, ironically, was actually doing great. Everything was great externally, internally. Profit wise, but I felt really sad. And down and exhausted, and almost resentful. Which again, were all these feelings around like but what like how dare you feel resentful, like people would love these leads, people would love to be able to work with, you know, work with these brands. And, and I was so grateful. But then I was also met with this feeling of why do I feel so like I was starting to dread Mondays? If so, I took back then that was 2019 2020. I took like a six week break. I always take an extended break over Christmas and New Year’s. But I took an extra extended break that time because my body needed it. And I was like, this is not it. Like this is not it. Like I have been creating this business up until now based on this success definition. That is not mine. Like I was seeing other agencies I was seeing other service-based businesses being booked out and you know growing based on hiring more people and more people and I did not for one moment and this sounds like crazy. Now I’ve come to think of agile not for one moment, pause and consider what does it look like for me? What do I want it to look like? What does success actually look like for me? And what do I want it to be? And when I look into it, I was like I was never also asked what I wanted growing up. No, no, no shade to my parents, I love them. And they did the best that they could with what they had much. Never was I was asked by them or any of my family members. And either What do you want? How do you feel? What would you like, you know, it was like a lawyer or doctor. So it was very much like I It doesn’t matter what I want. It was always whatever people wanted and that was a big wake up call for me. I was like I was literally creating my life based on other people’s success definitions. And I see this so often Hayley like where people online look at coaches and they’re like, Oh wow, she’s got a seven figure business or eight figure business and I will on that, and do you? Do you really you actually-

Hayley Quinn 30:03

Do you want what goes with it to get to that place as well.

Anita Siek 30:09

And you also don’t know what’s going on?

Hayley Quinn 30:12

I think I think you make some really important points there of one, I think so many people learn the hard way about taking care of themselves, but also the piece around, like just pushing and pushing and keeping on going. And you mentioned that, you know, your parents had these expectations, you’re going to be a lawyer or a doctor. And there was this sense of kind of guilt and disappointing them. So I wonder if that played into it. I’d be a lawyer or a doctor, I’m going to have a business but I’m gonna have a god the best business there isn’t it’s successful.

Anita Siek 30:43

But also, I didn’t know what that actually looks like it. Like it was purely from then like back then it was purely measured by money. Like, to be honest, it was purely like, Okay, well, I will make this much. Okay, I will double down. And then I would meet it. And then I’m like, Okay, I guess we’ll go more like, terrible way of measuring the success of your business like it should never be. If I was to say one thing, do you not measure the success of your business purely based on money, because you’re telling me, if you’re telling me that someone makes a seven figure business or a six week, whatever it is, that you aspire to have, but then they are working themselves to the bone, they have no time with their kids, they cannot travel, they, which I love travelling, they cannot do half the things that make them feel more than that is not success. To me, that is not success.

Hayley Quinn 31:31

And I think we need to call out as well. But a lot of people out there in online world that are promoting 6/7/8 figure businesses are not telling you that it takes you nearly that much money to get the revenue. Like yeah, it matters, your revenue is one thing you couldn’t you could Yeah, million dollar business. It’s costing you, you know, everything but $10,000 to actually get the million dollars and you walk home with $10,000.

Anita Siek 31:59

Or like you’re at a loss, like that’s also not sustainable.

Hayley Quinn 32:02

So I think we need to be careful, don’t we, but again, it’s coming back to you’re talking about your definition of success. And we need to know ourselves. And we need to tune in and understand that I covered these things in the programme. I work with business owners, where you’ve really got to slow down and think about what does success mean for you? Because so I mean, I’m assuming you’ve then you’ve got more of a picture of what that means. Because you live a life that doesn’t look like you’re just carrying on trying to make loads and loads of money. You’re creating businesses and a life that are full of things that you enjoy. Yeah.

Anita Siek 32:47

I think a really big realisation for me too, that I had I hadn’t yet shared on with you yet Hayley on this podcast is a big wake up call for me to was, you know, I lost my dad quite suddenly. And that was through terminal cancer. And I was his carer up until the very end, but I saw him work literally, on it, literally on his deathbed, literally taking calls on his laptop working, taking calls, like I was like, and there’s an element of grief I have on that, because I’m like, that makes me sad. So sad that the final days of his life was this hustle and this chase for this thing that he may never actually fully be able to experience. And I don’t, it’s like I don’t I looked at I looked at that. And I’m like I do that is I don’t want that like that, to me is not success, because then you don’t get to also spend time with your kids as much until you’re literally diagnosed with terminal cancer. And life is you don’t know when life is going to flip. You don’t know when that line finishes. I’ve met people who are literally I’m not trying to get all negative but it’s like I’ve met people who just passed literally just like that in their 20s and their 30s in their 40s and their 50s. Unexpected and thing like we are pouring so much energy into this thing called business or work not to say I don’t care I love the work that I do. I love business and all of that but the thing is, we’re missing out on life where we are do not create a business so much so that your takes you away from life and you’re not living and you’re literally not living because there’s so much beauty in the world to see I love travelling. There’s so much in the world to see to experience. But we just continuously get ourselves into this rhythm where it’s like once I get this then I will this once I I reached like get to Christmas, then I will rest well, no, that’s a terrible way of should be resting during the things that you love every day, why can’t you you can absolutely wow the time creator of your life. And

Hayley Quinn 35:14

You make some such valuable points. And I’m so sorry about the loss of your dad. And what a thing for you to see as well happening. But how wonderful that you’ve taken the learning from that? Because not because not every really does. People see things and experience things in life. And we don’t always take the learnings in you have and it’s to your benefit. And I don’t think you’re getting negative. It’s interesting when when I was think when people start to talk about death, or you know that life isn’t forever. And we have this thing of like, well, maybe that’s a negative thing to talk about. I think we always talk about it more in life, because I agree, it helps us when we realise that we don’t have infinite time. We are able to make decisions that serve us better in the present moment. I think, you know, what we know, we don’t know, tomorrow isn’t promised to any of us this afternoon isn’t promised to any of us, right? Sure. We get to make different decisions. And you know, there’s some beautiful research where people have been interviewed at the end of their lives, and not one of them said, I wish I’d spent more time at the office, ya

Anita Siek 36:24

Or like, I wish I worked harder.

Hayley Quinn 36:27

No, it’s about connection and time with loved ones and doing meaningful activities. So I think I’m glad you raised that. Because I think it’s really, really important.

Anita Siek 36:39

It’s so important, I think, like, I grew up very quickly throughout that whole thing, but it’s almost like, it makes me see that made me sad, like I said, because I feel like Dad never really got to live. But so many people are actually doing this now, like all around us. And if you’re listening at the moment, like pause and literally consider like, what does what do you want? Like, what does success actually feel like and look like for you? Like, what are the priorities of you and your life? And does that actually align with where you’re spending your time every day? Because if you’re saying you care a lot about your kids, and you wanna spend more and but then you have no time. And it’s not about spending five hours with them. Like it’s just quality time, like, half an hour could be better than three hours were you spending with them? Were you on your on your foot? You know? Yeah,

Hayley Quinn 37:32

Yeah, absolutely starting to really tune in again, getting to know yourself tune in. And this stuff can be really scary for people and I get that, that can be a lot of fears, blocks and resistances that show up to people saying, well actually, I want to start prioritising my own needs, or I want to start doing things differently in my life, but there are ways to work through that. You know, you and I have both had that kind of journey of doing things a particular way and crashing and burning and then learning from it and coming up with new ways to live kind of sustainable and thriving lives that we enjoy and running successful businesses that we enjoy as well but not that are completely depleting us so So of all of that. What are the things you do kind of on the regular to take care of yourself? Because like you say you don’t wait till Christmas to rest that’s not a good plan at all people. So what are some of this sort of daily monthly weekly?

Anita Siek 38:33

A number of things I’ll try to just speak to the ones that are coming to my head right now. I put in my holidays first so when I put in my holidays first always I then design everything else around it. Yeah. I go for heaps of walks. I I would also say that when I’m feeling stressed, or there’s a lot of things on my plate that is that used to be an alert system for me to be like oh no keep pushing on. So I can smash out as many things as possible so that tomorrow it will be less but now it’s almost like I need to double down on myself even more and I yeah, I draw this about you and your approach and everything that you teach and your programme and that is why I adore working with you as well. Because you’re so you know about that element of self care is not just for Saturday’s self care is not just for you know the end of the year. Like it needs to be a big part of your everyday and that looks different for everyone. Right. So I could say I go for walks I go to saunas, I go to ice baths, but for some people they’re like, Well, I spa as well. So no, no, thank you. So you’re going to find what it works for you as he has saunas, ice baths. I do go to the gym. I try to go to the gym at least four times a week, but a saunas every single week i spots as well. The other elements for me too, is a alone time. Yeah, love my husband. But when I say alone time, I mean also alone time from him. Absolutely from everyone and I am just alone in my own thoughts. And I usually take myself on a solo vacation. So I’ll book myself somewhere. I’ve done this now for three, four years, since that moment where I got, you know, just I was burnt out. I’ve done it since. And it’s a very uncomfortable first couple of days, like, so I’ll usually book like five days, there’ll be very uncomfortable for me for the first two, three days. But then I’m like, Ah, like, I feel like then I’m dialling out the external noise and dialling up the internal things and things that are really important things I want to feel and everything is more vivid. When I’m just alone, like I can hear the birds, I can see everything in so much colour. So I do that as well. I do that every year. What are some of the things travel, I love travelling, that’s a big part. For me, that just fills my cup a lot. And I think the other thing too, for me is I and again, like to everything we’ve been talking about on this episode, I also lean in a lot into what I need. Now, like I might wake up, or I might have planned a full on week, and be like, yep, bum, bum, bum, bum bum. And then I might wake up one day and be like, Wow, I do not feel the best. And because the work that I do is quite deep and immersive. And also creative in the realm of copywriting and teaching, and I do bring the energy, or you there is more reason I do. But it’s almost like that is even more reason I need to look after myself, in order for me to best show up to my students, my clients, my family, Dean, everyone, my friends, everyone else around me, I need to make sure I am protecting my energy and looking after myself. So that’s another thing like saying no to events that do not spark joy for me. You know, that’s another thing in my life, even though

Hayley Quinn 42:18

You’re speaking my language, and you know, for for some people, all those things aren’t necessarily available. I think, you know, you and I speak from a place of privilege, and we do these things. And not everybody can do that. But I think there’s ways we can do that, that don’t cost money that we don’t have to go places like having that time for yourself can be going and shutting yourself in a room in the house or going down to the bottom of the garden or sitting out in a balcony or wherever yes to be going

Anita Siek 42:47

Go for a walk. That’s my alone time every day with my dogs but still alone.

Hayley Quinn 42:52

Yeah, and even if something like that’s not possible, if somebody accessibility wise, can’t go for a walk is finding ways that fit for them to just slow down and tune in. And you mentioned that checking in with yourself. One of my greatest life hacks has been just slowing down regulating the nervous system checking in Hey, Hayley, how you going? What do you need right now, and then listening to what I say, you know, listening to that inner wisdom, and acting on that. And then, you know, really dialling into what works for me with my budget with my time with my family circumstance, all that sort of stuff. But the important thing is, isn’t it is that there’s something that you’re doing on a regular basis where you’re connecting with what you need as an individual to take care of yourself? Yeah.

Anita Siek 43:41

That’sit. That took a bit of time for me to actually even dial up that internal voice because no one’s ever really asked, ever. But you’ve got to ask yourself.

Hayley Quinn 43:53

Yeah, absolutely. And it does take time I think about when I started to change the relationship with myself. I thought to myself, if I was trying to get get to know somebody new, what would I do? Well, I would listen to the what they had to say, I would ask them open and curious questions, and pay attention to the answers. And that’s what I started doing with myself, I might well, okay, I don’t know myself, well, or I didn’t have a great relationship with myself for many, many years. And that’s what I started to do. And it does take time. It’s not an overnight thing. But gosh, it’s worth it. And it helps you create a completely different life. Hey.

Anita Siek 44:32

Yeah, I think and I always say, I think we’ve had this conversation before you and I, but it’s like, you know, inherently you know, you know, like, you know, whether or not it’s should I do this should I like inherently like, you know,

Hayley Quinn 44:49

Yeah, just need to turn down that noise. Hey, yeah, turn down external noise. So what do you think has been your biggest key learning in business so far? Oh,

Anita Siek 45:01

That is so hard to pick one, I feel like I’m making. I call them flearnings like failure and learning. And make them so often. And I love it. I think my biggest learning in business for some reason this just came into my mind, but it’s, if I help others, and I, this was probably not the answer you were looking for, but like, this is the first thing that came to my mind. But if I help others step into their purpose, they will step into this is what comes to mind. I think my biggest learning in business is now that success is just not the mean measured by the dollars like it’s not. And it’s taken a long time for me to arrive at a point where I used to be obsessed over looking at our zero our financials, don’t get me wrong, I still do. It’s important to know your numbers. But I use use attach my identity literally to it. When we have when something bad happens. I’m like, oh, no, because I was my business. I am my business, like, literally I am wed Fetty. I am ex business. And that is dangerous. Because two reasons. One, when so much of your identity is tied to this business. It then makes it hard for you to stop doing work, like just stop working, because you’re like, who am I outside of this business? And that’s why so many people struggle to stop and they keep working until they burn out. Because they don’t know who they are if they just stopped working. Yeah. But equally, when something wobbles and you’re in business, or if you’re in business, or even in a corporate career, if something wobbles if you attach so much of yourself to it, then when that goes wrong, you then make it about you, you then feel bad, you then don’t show up, you then do XYZ. So now I see so much of like, it’s separate, like Anita is Anita and Anita created Wordfetti. Anita has created this, Anita has created that. But they’re separate. That doesn’t mean I don’t care about these businesses or these things that I’ve got, but they’re separate. And I now much rather measure my success based on the transformation and life changes I get to make personally this is my definition. Like even if it’s just one person, like if I can impact even just one life. In my year in my month, like that is so special, like to me to notice there’s a gazillion people in this world and I get to be that person that I don’t know plants or seeds in someone else’s. And that is their sliding door moment to creating something for themselves. Which comes back to if I step into my, you know, purpose, then I feel like I help others step into there. So long winded answer, but yeah, I think just looking at the business, not as a leader, not a part of me.

Hayley Quinn 48:06

Yeah, you’re not your business. You have a business. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And you you’ve made an impact on me, in many, many ways, darling. So there you go. Mission accomplished. What, what has been your biggest highlight? Again, if you could pick one, and I know that’s hard. But what’s been your biggest highlight as a business owner?

Anita Siek 48:31

I would probably say that was for me last year. So I took my mom on a I know this sounds really just I don’t know whether we want to call it materialistic or whatever. But I have had the desire to take my mom. She’s never been on business class She’s never also spoiled herself. She’s never let herself be spoiled. She’s always been quite frugal. She’s always been saving all the things so that she would give it to me and put me in the best education. But there was also that flip 360 where I’m like, No, we’re gonna frickin spoil you like rotten. So for me, the biggest highlight as soon as you asked me that question isn’t even business like it is the fact that the business has helped, like allowed for me to now you know, spoil my mom and she and my dad like, you know, poured in so much to put me in, they worked like crazy and put me in the best education wanted me to have the absolute best and now I want her to have the best, you know, the other way around. And I think for me, the most beautiful thing about the business has been that like to be able to create. Create these moments for my mom. I’m about to go to a little holiday with her. I’m taking her to Hobart she’s never been there, taking her to discover the world. out, when she used to take me to discover the world, I would also say the other part of that is now the impact I get to choose to, like create. This could be in little things like this, but it’s now in, you know, being able to choose, you know, where I want to, like, pouring my time pouring money, resources to fuel other elements as well. So yeah, that was the first thing that came to my mind.

Hayley Quinn 50:30

That’s beautiful. So it’s again, it’s, it’s not about the business, per se, as it is around when you choose business ownership. It allows you to make different choices in so many aspects of your life. Yeah, that’s beautiful. And to be able to spoil your mom is lovely. But it’s interesting as well. And I wonder if this is mainly a gendered thing, is when we start to talk about money or spending money on something like a business class flight is this discomfort that comes with it that we feel like we have to apologise. And I think it’s important we kind of go, we don’t need to apologise for that. I think if we’re if we have privilege, then we we need to acknowledge it. Yeah, but we’re also allowed to want for things out and as women were are allowed to want to be successful, we are allowed to want to make a lot of money, we are allowed to go out there and do that we’ve been socialised into staying small, staying quiet, being successful, and I say sod that, if that’s the life you want, then that’s the life you can start making choices for yourself. So good on you. And I think that’s just beautiful. I remember seeing on Instagram, and you and your mom are just the cutest ever.

Anita Siek 51:51

But I love that you call that out as well. I mentioned that I think it’s one of those things where it’s tricky. It’s almost like you. And it’s all of our different types of narratives, right? Because some people, you know, you might be like, Yeah, that’s so fair. But for some people, and based on our own definition of what greed, what success, what you know, all of that is you could hear that and be like, oh, like, that’s a bit, you know, greedy, or that’s a bit blob. But that’s, again, I go back to, you know, it’s our responsibility to tell or speak our truth, or not our responsibility on how other people read it.

Hayley Quinn 52:35

And also, if people are holding those beliefs, again, get to know yourself, because as they actually your thoughts and beliefs, are they things that you’ve picked up along the way that is stopping you from making choices that you want to make in your life, whether that’s about earning more money, or working less, or doing things differently, it doesn’t matter what it is, but we hold so many beliefs that we’ve picked up from very early in life. And they’re not always helpful for us. So it’s like do an audit. Is this my thinking, are these my beliefs? Or do I need to leave them where they belong and actually get to know what I want for my life? Yeah, that’s it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, Anita I’ve got so many more questions for you. And I can see the time’s running along but one of the things that I wanted to kind of ask you and I think we’ve we’ve touched on this, but how your work has influenced your own life and how you now see yourself perhaps compared to how you previously saw yourself

Anita Siek 53:39

How work is influenced my life? I think you know, that when you first when you just said that question immediately in my mind, I think Isn’t it interesting how there is this concept of work that is part of our life that we’re supposed to be you know, doing the thing to make the doula like the moolah and then use it to buy things in our that enrich our life or whatever it might be for you. I think for me, what has been really interesting has been seen the overlap between what I see work to be like good work, and what a good life is, and seeing the overlap. Yeah, so highly recommend you like anyone listening to this, I did this exercise, you can actually do it. I didn’t create this exercise. It’s by designing your life. It’s a design thinking methodology, where they actually it was created by Stanford University, and they actually got you to really think about what what is work? Like what is work, like, what makes good work, what makes like not so good work, and what is a good life? Like it gets very deep, I love deep, but it’s like, what makes a good what makes good work? Why do we work and what makes a good life and there’s a lot of other questions you can just Google it like it’s like a designing your life questions, but well Looking at the work view and live view and seeing what overlaps for me with three things, one, learning, I love learning, learning in both life and business, I love learning and because reason why I experiment a lot, the biggest thing where I learn a lot, the other element of that is freedom. Now freedom is very easy to say. But getting really specific of freedom is freedom in decision making freedom in creative play in creative ideas in being able to look at a way that has been done traditionally, and being like, you know what, I can do it very differently. So it’s like getting really clear on what that is for me. And then final element for me is legacy. Like, I feel like I, again, going back to even just one person, like just this element of, you know, meeting someone you just never know, like, you could literally go to a cafe, if you go to a cafe every single day, and you’ve never talked to your barista, like, even just having a conversation with them. You don’t know that could be. Yeah, but same with work, right? So that, for me has always been the thing. And it’s funny, because that’s also how Dean and I, my husband now got first connected, it was simply through me sliding into his Facebook messages. And I started a conversation like, and we just talked through that, like we had mutual friends. But we never had a genuine conversation until a Facebook chat. And I think that was a big sliding door moment for me, obviously. But it’s like so much you could change someone’s life, your life can change simply by that element of connection and approaching it from the space of that. Yeah, I hope that makes sense. Yeah, then you can actually impact someone’s life through a very micro moment.

Hayley Quinn 56:50

Yeah, I love I love that. And I think that’s great getting people to think about what is work, and what is life and what is good, good work and good life. And your sense of freedom reminded me of something and this isn’t probably sound really self absorbed. But I have a joke with my husband about when things aren’t going. If things aren’t in the world the way I think I would prefer them to be or that I kind of see and think, Oh, why would that be done like that? I we have this kind of joke that about Hayley land, that it wouldn’t be like that if it was Hayley land. What started to happen, though, which has been really helpful. And you were saying about just because people do it one way, how can I have the freedom to do it differently? I might be talking about because obviously, I’ve pivoted my business I’ve, I’m a clinical psychologist, I’m a coach, as well. And I’m really building that aspect of my business. And there’s lots of learning and lots of ways people do things. And I’ll say to my husband, oh, you know, this is how people are doing it, and blah, blah, blah. And he might sometimes say to me, but how would it be done if it was in Hayley land? And I’m like, oh, that’s brilliant. Of course, I don’t need to do the way they’re doing it. I need to come back to myself and how I do it, because that’s what I bring to the table. That’s what makes me different. That’s what makes my business different.

Anita Siek 58:07

Oh, yes.

Hayley Quinn 58:11

We only have our own little land and Anitaland, Hayleyland.

Anita Siek 58:16

I love it. I love it.

Hayley Quinn 58:18

So, given you’re in business, it has its ups and downs. There are lots of learnings. It can be challenging, how important Have you found it to have a support system around you whilst you’re running your business? And what do you find most helpful about this?

Anita Siek 58:34

Critical, so important. I think it’s critical from a few different dimensions. It’s critical because the people that you surround yourself with and the circle the inner circle, or who however you want to coined that that could be from a personal friendship lens that could be from a professional lens in containers will impact what you will then define as in a way your normal new normal, if you surround yourself with people who just are not in that level, or that same wavelength, then you might be like, oh, yeah, okay, maybe not. Maybe I won’t like, and it just takes I do believe it’s contagious. I do believe energy is contagious. So

Hayley Quinn 59:17

There’s research to back you up on that. There’s

Anita Siek 59:21

Absolutely, and I think it’s been critical for me, in terms of just making sure that I have an support network is like I said, it’s not just in the work centre, I have a great team. I have also, you know, great, like support networks in the realm of business, but it’s also support networks outside like, you know, I also have a therapist, I love love my therapist. You know, I have a therapist. I also have, you know, other support networks that I lean on beyond just business but is a opportunity for me to it’s almost like creating your own boss. would like to support you in life and business like, you know, Dean, my husband, my friends who don’t own a business like so curating your support system doesn’t mean just work. I think it’s like looking at it again as your entire life. And yes, work is one key component and who where do you want to go? And how can you get the right people? I do believe it’s always the who not not just the what can you get to really support you in propelling you to that next level? It’s been critical, like community people connections critical in what I believe, is key for business growth.

Hayley Quinn 1:00:43

Yeah, absolutely. I think you make a good point that it’s not just about businesses it, I have my own therapist as well. Obviously, I’m a therapist, I believe in people having therapy. I’m a coach, I have, you know, I work with you in a mastermind. I’m a business coach, I believe in having business support, but also people who you’re not talking about that stuff. Before you can just go and do something else. That’s nothing to do business and just talk but

Anita Siek 1:01:07

you can just be.

Hayley Quinn 1:01:12

Fantastic. So this is a question that I asked all my guests, and it’s my favourite question. If you could meet your 80 year old self? What do you think she would say to you?

Anita Siek 1:01:29

Well, first of all, 80 year old Anita will be fabulous. No, yes, she will. She will be fabulous wearing a very colourful dress, I hope. I think she would think she would probably be like, just experience more and create more special moments. And don’t be afraid to don’t be afraid to put yourself out there and trailblazing a path, even if it feels uncomfortable, because I do sometimes feel uncomfortable. Doing things a little bit differently, you know, launching things a different way. I feel uncomfortable, because there is no proven track record from that I’m leaning on, right. And I get nervous, but I think yeah, my 80 year old self will be like, you know, experience more and have more fun. And, you know, just friggin don’t be afraid to put yourself out there and do things that are a little bit different. Because you might then find just like the dude, you like the juice, that the Treasure

Hayley Quinn 1:02:46

I have a feeling she’s also going to say to you, thank you darling for seeing how to do it differently. And taking those brave steps and doing it differently and taking me on such a wonderful journey. I’m sure she will say something

Anita Siek 1:03:01

A colourful life.

Hayley Quinn 1:03:02

Yeah, absolutely. So if people want to find out more about you or get in touch, what’s the best way that they can do that? And I’ll put some links in the show notes as well.

Speaker 1 1:03:12

Yeah, so find me personally on Instagram Anita Siek. And you can also find Wordfetti, which is the word very word for the copywriting house I was talking about over on Instagram Wordfetti. And you can find also a freebie if you’re really intrigued. In the realm of copywriting and language. We have an incredible freebie wordfettigroup.com/freebie, where every day over five days, we drop in with like a five minute lesson on copywriting to uplevel it so yeah.

Hayley Quinn 1:03:50

well well worth it. One of the things I love about the way you do copywriting is you teach it in a way that is so easy to take on board and take action with. So I’d highly recommend people go grab that. And, and also if you could distil it down into one piece of advice. And again, I know that can be tricky. What would you want our listeners to take away from our conversation today?

Anita Siek 1:04:16

I’d say to bring it back home, make decisions based on the person you want to become, or the business you want to become. Instead of the business are the person that you want to maintain.

Hayley Quinn 1:04:32

Beautiful. I love that.

Anita I always love being in touch with you your energy energises me. I think you’re wonderful. And thank you so much for coming on my little poddy.

Thank you. Thank you Hayley, for having me. Thank you so much. Take care darling.

Thank you for sharing this time with me today, I hope our time together has been helpful and supportive. If there has been something in this episode that you have found helpful, I invite you to share it with another person you think might benefit.

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Music and editing by Nyssa Ray, thanks Nyssa.

I wish you all well in your relationship with yourself and your business.

May you go well and go gently, and remember, if you thrive your business can too!

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